PRIMARY
ORIENTAL LANGUAGE/TEACHERS
PUBLIC
BILLS
First
Reading
On motion made and
seconded the Community Service Order (Amendment) Bill
(No. VII of 2009) was read a first time.
Second
Reading
THE HINDI PRACHARINI
SABHA (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. IV of 2009)
(21/04/09)
Order for Second
Reading read.
The Minister of
Education, Culture and Human Resources (Dr. V. Bunwaree): Mr Speaker, Sir, I
beg to move that the Hindi Pracharini Sabha
(Amendment) Bill
(No. IV of 2009) be now read a second time.
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
object of the Bill is to amend Section (6) of the
Hindi Pracharini
Sabha Act 2004 to make provision for the election of the
Committee members of
the Sabha to be held every three years and for
elected members to
hold office for three years instead of one.
The Hindi Pracharini
Sabha, Mr Speaker, Sir, is well known and much
appreciated in
Mauritius for its laudable work in the promotion and
propagation of Hindi
language and literature.
The legislation of
2004 provided a proper legal framework for the
Sabha to carry out
its operations and gave it the status of a body corporate.
Today, the Hindi
Pracharini Sabha is running Hindi classes in the
evenings and during
weekends in some 100 educational institutions around
the
island.
About 4,000 students
take part in the Parichay, Pratama, Madiama,
Uttama examinations,
which are held in Mauritius every year. To date,
about 100,000
students have taken part in Hindi Pracharini Sabha
examinations and
have been awarded certificates.
At present, the
Sabha is managed, as provided for at Section 6 of the
Act, by a Committee
comprising 12 members who are elected at each annual
general meeting and
hold office for one year. They are also eligible for reelection.
It has proved
difficult for members of the Committee to honour their
commitment and
fulfil the objectives of the Sabha during their one-year
tenure of office,
which is considered, too limited a period of time.
Moreover, the costs
of running such yearly elections conducted by the
Electoral Commission
are substantial and have had a financial bearing on the
Sabha.
With a view to
addressing this issue, the Sabha has resolved at its
annual general
meeting that elections of the Committee be carried out every
three years and that
the members of the Committee hold office for three
years. Such a course
of action would alleviate the financial burden of the
Sabha and allow it
to devote the savings made to its core activities.
The proposed
amendment, Mr Speaker, Sir, technical in nature, is in
line with the
requirements of the Sabha. The transitional provision at
Section 4 of the
Bill allows members of the Committee in office at the
commencement of this
Act to continue holding office for the remaining
period for which
they have been elected.
I would like here to
draw the attention of the House, Mr Speaker, Sir,
that the amendment
concerns mainly the holding of election and the duration
of tenure of office
of members of the Committee.
However, the Bill
before the House today may, Mr Speaker, Sir, give the
impression that
within the course of the three years there will be no annual
meeting. In fact, I
must say very frankly that in the course of the weekend,
the hon. Leader of
the Opposition drew my attention to the possibility of
confusion in there.
Therefore, I am proposing, at Committee Stage, an
amendment to the
amendment to make it very precise and allow the Sabha to
organise once every
year an annual general meeting.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
with this note of clarification, I commend the Bill to the
House.
Mr rose and
seconded.
(17.20)
The Leader of the
Opposition (Mr P. Bérenger): Mr Speaker, Sir,
I
am given to
understand that the Hindi Pracharini Sabha started doing a very
good work for the
promotion and propagation of Hindi in 1948 under the
guidance of JNR,
Jainarain Roy. Since then, the good work has continued
and, in fact, as the
hon. Minister said, the Hindi Pracharini Sabha does not
just promote Hindi,
but it organises very important elections as well. Of
course, there are a
lot of other organisations that did good work in the
promotion and
propagation of Hindi.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
am given to understand that the Hindi Pracharini
Sabha started doing
very good work for the promotion and propagation of
Hindi in 1948 under
the guidance of Jaynarain Roy. Since then the good
work has continued
and, in fact, the hon. Minister said that the Hindi
Pracharini Sabha
does not just promote Hindi, it organises very important
elections as well.
Of course, there are a lot of other organisations that did
good work in the
promotion and propagation of Hindi: Arya Sabha, the Arya
Ravived Pracharini
Sabha, the Government Hindi Teachers Union. And we
are very, it is not
lucky, because we work hard for that - the previous
Government and the
present Government - for the World Hindi Secretariat
to be hosted here in
Mauritius; it is a great privilege, it is a great honour. We
also have a Hindi
Speaking Union just as we have other Speaking Unions. I
have no quarrel with
the idea of having the Executive Committee elected for
three years. I don’t
think that it is a question of savings really. I think it is
more a question of
allowing a new team to settle down and to work, because
if it is one year,
it is very difficult. It is as if you have general election every
year and before
Government has time to start writing a programme, elections
are here again. If
there are savings, tant mieux, but I think it is more for the
good performance of
the Hindi Pracharini Sabha that I go along with this
idea of elections
taking place every three years. I was sitting next to the hon.
Minister at the
Sunday afternoon Tamil Temples Federation activity and I
pointed out to him
that there is confusion the way the amendment had been
drafted. It could
have been interpreted as meaning that not only the
Executive is voted
for three years, but that general meetings are held every
three years only. I
don’t think this would have been good for the health of
the Hindi Pracharini
Sabha. It is good that there is at least – because the
Executive Committee
can call more than one annual general meeting - one
annual general
meeting, not for electoral purposes, but to discuss the work of
the Sabha in
general, to make suggestions and so on. I am glad that the hon.
Minister took my
point on board and therefore the required amendment has
been
circulated.
Thank you, Mr
Speaker, Sir.
(17.22
p.m.)
Dr.
Bunwaree Mr Speaker, Sir, I
think there is a consensus. I just
wanted to point out
that I mentioned in my speech the two reasons. The
question of savings
is not the main reason, of course. The main reason is for
them to settle down
and to work for three years, but there is also the question
of the elections
being organised in presence of Electoral Commission. I
thank the hon.
Leader of the Opposition for having mentioned a few words.
I commend the
Bill.
Question put and
agreed to.
Bill read a second
time and committed.
COMMITTEE
STAGE
(The Speaker in the
Chair)
THE HINDI PRACHARINI
SABHA (AMENDMENT) BILL (NO.
IV OF
2009)
Clauses 1 and 2
ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 3 (Section 6
of principal Act amended)
Motion made and
question proposed: “that the clause stand part of the Bill.”
Dr.
Bunwaree: Mr Chairman, I move
that clause 3 be amended as
follows
–
Dr.
Bunwaree: Mr Chairman, I move
that clause 3(a) be amended as
follows
–
“by adding, after
paragraph (ii), the following new paragraphs –
(iii) in paragraph
(c), by deleting the word “and”;
(iv) by adding,
after paragraph (d), the following new paragraph, the
full stop at the end
of paragraph (d) being deleted and replaced
by a semi colon
–
(e) organise a
general meeting every year.”
Amendment agreed
to.
Clause 3, as
amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 4 and 5
ordered to stand part of the Bill.
The title and
enacting clause were agreed to.
The Bill, as
amended, was agreed to.
On the Assembly
resuming with Mr Speaker in the Chair, Mr Speaker
reported
accordingly.
Third
Reading
On motion made and
seconded, the Hindi Pracharini Sabha
(Amendment) Bill
(No. IV of 2009) was read a third time and passed.
At this stage, the
Deputy Speaker took the Chair.
PRIVATE MEMBERS’
MOTION
ASIAN LANGUAGES –
EXTENSION SCHOOLS –EXAMINATIONS (24/07/09)
Order read for
resuming adjourned debate on the following motion of the Second
Member for Quartier
Militaire & Moka (S. Dayal):
“This House is of
the opinion that the Mauritius Examinations Syndicate should conductall
examinations concerning asian languages taught in extension
schools.”
Question again
proposed.
Ms K. R. Deerpalsing
(Third Member for Belle Rose and Quatre Bornes): Mr
Speaker, Sir, let me
start…
(Interruptions)
Mr
Speaker: Hon. Burty
David...
(Interruptions)
Order! Order! Order,
hon. David! Hon. Bhagwan, order!
(Interruptions)
I suspend the
sitting for ten minutes.
At 4.10 p.m the
sitting was suspended.
On resuming at 4.23
p.m with Mr Speaker in the Chair
Ms
Deerpalsing: Mr Speaker, Sir,
let me start by congratulating my good friend, hon.Dayal, for having brought
this motion to the House and thus allowing us to have a debate on thesubject of
this motion. And lest we have forgotten what the motion was about - because it
hasbeen a while since the debates on this motion were adjourned - let me refresh
our memory on thewording of the motion as it stands before this House. It read
as follows –
“This House is of
the opinion that the Mauritius Examination Syndicate should conductall
examinations concerning Asian languages taught in extension schools.
”
The extension
schools that the motion refers to, as pointed out by hon. David and otherMembers
of the House, have in their existence and continued existence, the memory of
History.
We are talking here,
Mr Speaker, Sir, of today, as it will stand, some 783 schools with 1,912teachers
teaching a total of 52,474 students in languages as diverse as Urdu, Hindi,
Tamil,Telegu, Marathi and Mandarin. As I said, these institutions that are
already providing theteaching of these Asian languages bear within them the
memory of History. The history of thoseextension schools is inextricably
interwoven with that of the country and that of the valiant fightagainst the
annihilation of the richness and diversity of cultures and languages in this
country.
Today, Mr Speaker,
Sir, we speak highly of our diversity and we have to remember thatthis has been
made possible by the vision and determination of the many many individuals
andcultural organizations and it is befitting for me here, as my colleagues have
done before me, topay homage to all of these courageous individuals and these
organizations including, especiallySir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam, who persevered in
their endeavour to preserve the richness of our
diversity despite
sometimes having been ridiculed, if not vehemently criticised for that type
ofwisdom and foresightedness.
Some Members on the
opposite side of the House in the course of the debate on thismotion have
expressed the concern that maybe, with this motion, we may be talking about
theputting away or putting aside of the 783 schools that are covering some
52,000 students of thiscountry. I don’t believe that this is what this motion is
about. This motion is not about puttingaside or diminishing the importance of
the existing extension schools as some Members on theother side of the House had
expressed some concern that that might lead to that but, as far as Iam
concerned, this motion is not about that, it is a question of moving to the next
step. It’s a
question of aligning
ourselves with today’s context and to modernise and to continue the workwith
better tools. With the collaboration of the Mauritius Examination Syndicate the
(MES) – and I’ll come later on to what shape this collaboration could take with
the extension schools –standard-based instruction and assessment practices can
meet to form a seamless connection andwhen we are talking about international
standards today we have to – there is globalisation, we
move around - also
take into consideration the importance of international standards.
Mr Speaker, Sir, we
are also talking of not continuing with the unsaid implication thatlanguage
should be a synonym for religion as hon. Shakeel Mohammed had mentioned in
hisspeech - a speech which, I must say, I greatly appreciated. Because when we
are talking aboutlanguage and the way we come to a language, the reason why we
come to learn a language, italready affects our socialisation. So, hon. Mohammed
in his speech mentioned that, forexample, when we go to school - I did when I
went to primary school; it was already decided for
me that I should go
and learn Hindi and not any other languages and that had its reason, but wemust
be careful, as hon. Mohammed has said - we do not imprison languages with other
socialboxes. I think this is why it is a good idea to have a national
institution like the MES tocollaborate with the existing extension schools. As I
said, we have to modernise, we have to livewithin the times that we are living
and if I may just use a quote from a musician by the name of
Brian Eno and he
said –“ In a reasonable world, the boldness of youth would be balanced by the
wisdom ofexperience, so that society neither explodes in a flurry of
incompatible revolutionaryideas nor ossifies in frozen consensus; it is when the
balance fails that things go wrong”
So, We have to see
how that balance can be found. We can’t afford to be ossified infrozen
consensus, we have to move on, but yet we cannot upset the apple cart as well,
we have tofind the balance and the collaboration between the MES and the
extension schools have to findthat balance within our social context. We have
seen how our ‘tribuns’ have fought for thepreservation of languages. So,
we see that the learning of languages was actually a formidabletool in the
survival of identify and this goes to the reason that hon. Shakeel Mohamed had
mentioned in his speech. I think we have achieved that and we must now move
beyond ensuring
the survival of
identity through language learning. People can study a language or another
language in the hope of finding a rewarding career, let's say internationally.
Some may beinterested in the intellectual findings, the intellectual exploration
and the intellectual challengeand the cognitive benefits that the study of
multiple languages can bring. It is well known, MrSpeaker, Sir, now - with
research that people have made - that people who study two or morelanguages
receive, not just the language but the additional cognitive benefits. So, people
may
study languages for
that. Other people may study languages in order to understand other peopleand
other cultures. The challenge in nation-building, while preserving our richness
of thediversity of our language is to move away from a singular reason for which
students would signup to study a particular language to the multiple reasons
that I have mentioned above for whichpeople seek a sort of épanouissement
in the studying of languages.
As I said, we need
to move away from a child of five or six years old coming into aclassroom and
the teacher already deciding for that child on what language he or she would
learnin school. We need to move away from that singular reason to the more
diverse reason why, forexample, a child, today – I know the case of a cousin of
mine - who has studied Hindi all throughthe primary cycle, but now that she is
in the secondary cycle, her parents thought that it would begood for her to
study Mandarin. That reason was to seek the cognitive benefits and also to
learnanother language and another culture. So, what I am saying is that we
should move to anotherlevel of the reason why we study a language and also to
move into this collaboration with theMES not just to be an administrative
collaboration, but it should be inscribed right into thenotion of
nation-building. I think this is why this motion is very important. It is very
importantfor us to reflect upon the ways in which the MES can achieve this by
doing the standardisationand also by taking us forward in
nation-building.
I think hon. Mrs
Dookun-Luchoomun, in her speech, had said: ‘are we saying that theseextension
schools have not done their job properly (…)’. This is not at all what this
motion isabout. We are not saying that the different organisations have not been
professional in theirteaching and so on. That is not the point. The point is
that we need to move forward and weneed to see how we can have that seamless
connection between academic standards and theinteraction with society and also
moving our nation forward.
In order to do that,
Mr Speaker, Sir, as I said before, I would try to see what shape
thatcollaboration could take which the MES could have with the extension
schools. But, as it stands,
Mr Speaker, Sir,
there is nothing really new under the sun. We don't need to reinvent the
wheel,because we have examples in different countries in the world where they
have taken differentlanguage institutions together and have a national standard.
When I did the research for thisintervention - because I was not sure what I was
going to talk when the hon. Chief Whip askedme to intervene on this matter - I
got more deeply into some of the notions of this motion. I
found out that in
the US and in Canada - I am going to share this with the House because I foundit
very interesting and this part of my speech will be drawn highly with the
example of the US.
The process in the
US under the Clinton administration developed a national standard for
theteaching of what they call foreign languages. As I said, I have been
researching the subject and Ihave also contacted some friends in Canada who are
teaching languages, they have given mesome interesting ideas. In Canada actually
they call it the National Standards for Teaching WorldLanguages, not Foreign
Languages. So, it is more integrative.
Let me come back to
the US experience. It is noteworthy that with the help of the threeyeargrant
from the US Department of Education and National Endowment for the
Humanities,they set up an 11-member taskforce, representing a variety of
languages, a variety of levels ofinstructions, the programme models and the
geographic regions. They undertook the task ofdefining content standards, what
students should know and should be able to do in foreignlanguage education. It
took a long time to prepare that document. The final document which
is
called the Standards
for Foreign Language Learning preparing for the 21st Century, which wasfirst
published in 1996, represents a wide consensus among all these stakeholders: the
educators,business leaders, Government and the community leaders on the
definition and the role offoreign language instruction in American education.
This is a really impressive document and it
has been used by
teachers, administrators and curriculum developers at both the State and
locallevels to improve world and language education in schools across the United
States. There arethousands of these schools in different community areas which
we might call the extensionschools; they have a kind of similar set up with our
extension schools.
What is important to
note here, Mr Speaker, Sir, is that these standards are not a
curriculum guide.
Instead, they suggest the type of curricular experiences that students need
tohave in order to enable them to achieve the standards. I will explain in more
details in a little bit
of time. These
standards do not describe the specific course contents nor the
recommendedsequence of study. They are meant in the US to be used with State and
local standards andcurriculum frameworks to determine the best approaches and
reasonable expectations for thestudents in individual districts and schools. As
I said, we could learn from this, Mr Speaker, Sir.
There is a set of
standards and it is up to the individual schools to develop the best
approaches,the best curriculum content that would leave the national standards
to be met. This is where, andthe kind of role that the MES could play in
collaborating with the extension schools as acollaborative partner. The shape of
the MES collaboration, in my view, would be in devisingthose standards and
ensuring that whatever approach, whatever curriculum content is used by
the
individual schools,
the standards are met.
Let me come to what
kind of standards generally we are talking about and therefore whatthe
collaboration of the MES would take in terms of real experience. In the US, and,
as I said inCanada, they have identified five goal areas that would encompass
all the objectives sought inlanguage education. These are known as the 5Cs of
World Language Education and these are –
(i)
communication,
(ii)
culture,
(iii)
connections,
(iv) comparisons,
and
(v)
communities.
Each of these five
overall goals is broken down in standards to be achieved for thesegoals. For
example, in the communication goal Standard 1.1 requires that students are able
toengage in conversations, provide and obtain information, express feelings and
emotions andexchange opinions. That is one standard in the communication goal.
This is the case whateverthe language is and whatever method and approach. For
example, in our case, the extensionschool might take to get to Standard 1.1 if
we were to take that kind of route. And Standard 1.2,
for example, looks
for students to be able to understand and interpret written and spokenlanguage
on a variety of topics. Standard 1.3 ensures that students can present
information; theycan present concept and ideas to an audience of listeners and
readers on a variety of topics. So,you see, Mr Speaker, Sir, what they have done
at their level in the US in terms of preparingthese national standards, is
preparing what you want to achieve in terms of communication, in
terms of connection,
in terms of culture and in terms of connectivity. And then from then on –and
this is what, I think, for example, the MES could do because this work cannot be
done bythe individual extension schools. It has to be done at a national level,
you set the standards andthen you let the extension schools provide within that
framework. For example, if you have thefive Cs and then each of the five Cs, you
have the standards, then you have what they callprogress indicators, whereby you
can see whether the child has been able to assimilate thelanguage enough to be
able, first of all, to comprehend someone else, to be able to express andto be
able to share ideas and concepts in whatever language and whatever extension
schoolsthey are with other people.
So, I do not know
whether you will allow me, Mr Speaker, Sir, to briefly go over thestandards in
each of the categories. The first category was communication and I have
mentionedthree of the standards. It is really interesting because we could
inspire ourselves.
The second overall
category is cultures and standard 2.1 requires that students
demonstrate an
understanding of the relationship between the practices and perspectives of
theculture studied. Standard 2.2 requires that students have to demonstrate an
understanding of therelationship between the products and the perspectives of
the culture studied. Number 3, theconnection goes, standard 3.1 requires
students to reinforce and further their knowledge of other
disciplines through
the language they are studying. Standard 3.2 requires that students
acquireinformation and recognise the distinctive viewpoints that are only
available through thatlanguage and its cultures.
Now, when we come to
the comparisons - overall goal - standard 4.1 requires that
students have to
demonstrate understanding of the nature of the language through comparisons
ofthe language studied. So, the other language studied and their goal. Standard
4.2 - students haveto demonstrate understanding of the concept of culture
through the comparison of the culturesstudied and their goal. The fifth ‘C’,
which is the community’s goal, standard 5.1- students usethe language both
within and beyond the school setting. So, that is one of the other
standards.
Standard 5.2 - the
last one - students have to show evidence of becoming lifelong learners byusing
the language for personal enjoyment and enrichment and sharing with
others.
So, I think, Mr
Speaker, Sir, this is quite an impressive framework as far as I could seethrough
my research. I am not saying that the MES should be a copycat and just copy
this. But itprovides a sort of framework from which we can inspire ourselves and
from which the MEScould contextualise with the 483 existing extension schools. I
think, the first step should be -following this idea of the motion by hon. Dayal
- for a national institution like the MES to launch
a debate like they
did. The process is important as well; not only the final consensus document,but
the process of communicating and seeking the input of all these extension
schools in terms ofdefining a national standard because we have to bring
everybody together and have a consensusdocument. It cannot impose on the MES. It
will never work because people will say: ‘no, I donot do this’, ‘no, I do not do
this way’ and so on.
It has to go; we
have to take the time that it takes. Whatever time that it takes, whether itis
weeks or months, we have to bring representatives of the different extension
schools together,in a wide forum of debates and exchange of ideas, start with
something. You do not start withjust nothing on the board, but you could start
with something like a framework, then you modifyit and contextualise it in the
Mauritius context. I think, this is a very good and inspiringdocument and it is
a very inspiring type of experience that multicultural countries like the
United
States and Canada
have already gone through and we can learn from those experiences.
So, as I said, Mr
Speaker, Sir, there are also within each of these standards that I
mentioned, I would
not go through them, but it is good to know that also within each of
thesestandards, there are progress indicators which have been extensively
defined to show whether thestudent is going through this goal and is achieving
these goals.
We do not need to
reinvent the wheel, we just need to adopt the global best practiceswherever we
can find them and adopt them for the local context. They said, Mr Speaker,
Sir,that all linguistic and social knowledge required for effective human to
human interaction isencompassed in the following ten words, and I quote
–“Knowing how, when and why to say what to whom.”
They say that these
10 words encompass all of the linguistic and social knowledge that isrequired
for effective human to human interactions. Knowing how, when and why to say what
towhom. I think this is quite beautiful. This is precisely what these five goal
areas with each ofthese standards have tried to grapple with in the US and
Canada.
Now, Mr Speaker,
Sir, when we learn a second language or a third language, sometimes -especially
I think I find in Mauritius and I take my own experience - we do not realise
becausewe take it for granted, we do not realise the richness that this brings
us. It is only when we arefaced with situations, when we have to use those
languages outside Mauritius that it really dawnsupon us that we have something
more than what our other counterparts might have.
For example, let me
share! As you know, Mr Speaker, Sir, I represent our Parliament atthe level of
the JPA. I get there and sometimes we have sessions with the ACP meetings. I
amsure you know the ACP meetings, Mr Speaker, Sir, and I am sure other people in
the House alsoknow. ACP meetings tend to go on and on beyond the time allotted.
Sometimes, the interpreters
have to go and then
we are left in the room with speakers of English and French languages,especially
you have the African nation who speak either French or English, they do not
speakboth.
So, I found myself,
Mr Speaker, Sir, in a room where we have to continue the debate, butthe
interpreters, this is regulation, they have to go and I had to officiate as
translator and the firsttime that happened to me, I said how can this happen.
Really I never saw that having French andEnglish was a big deal because we take
it from granted. But it was there that I realised that thatwas something that we
have in Mauritius that is more than big countries like Nigeria or
other
countries in the
African States like South Africa, that we little Mauritius we had. So, it
reallydawns upon you then, what kind of richness, what kind of heritage we have
had in this countryand the work that previous leaders of the organisations have
done for us. And here I have toreally pay homage to Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam
again for the education system. I was myselfreally pleased that I was called
upon. They naturally said that the representative from Mauritius
should translate. It
was a bit difficult, Mr Speaker, Sir, because, as you know, the debates are
intechnical terms and they cover all kinds of political disputes between
countries. So, I had to findthe right words, because you have to be diplomatic
as well. I wanted to share that experience justto demonstrate that sometimes we
take for granted the kind of richness that our forefathers andour previous
Leaders have beleaguered to us.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
before I conclude, I would like to congratulate heartily hon. Dayal forbringing
this Motion and allowing us to ponder over the subject. I have to confess that
when Iwas asked to speak on this Motion, I had a bit of a panic attack as I
thought I was too ignorant onthe subject matter. I have, myself, learnt Hindi up
to form III and I can get around fine when Iam in India and I can also rather
honourably get by in reading and writing it. I also grew up with
grandparents and
parents, especially my mother who spoke Bhojpuri. And there was a time whenmy
brother and I were still very young, my parents thought that speaking Bhojpuri
was a way toensure that my brother and I would not totally understand what they
were concocting or plottingagainst us. We noticed that there was always a
revival of Bhojpuri whenever, for example, therewas a visit to the doctor or the
dentist in the pipeline. But they really underestimated our ability
to take the language
from our grandparents, because we used to spend holidays in CheminGrenier or in
Rose Hill where my grandparents used to speak Bhojpuri all the time.
Theyunderestimated our capacity to learn from just listening and we would always
be able to crackthe code. I can remember once my mum’s surprise was really
great. She was really surprisedwhen one day I actually replied in Bhojpuri that
I was not planning to go to the dentist with her.
Anyway, today it is
the hon. Chief Whip, my good friend hon. Dayal, who forces me to speakBhojpuri
with him. So, he has to suffer my terribly grammatically incorrect Bhojpuri, but
I haveto say he is very patient. I thank him for allowing me to reflect on the
subject, to reflectespecially on how he can move from languages as a form of
cultural survival to languages as aform of épanouissement and enriching
our linguistic diversity in the context of nation building.
I thank you, Mr
Speaker, Sir,At 4.53 p.m the sitting was suspended.
On resuming at 5.31
p.m. with Mr Speaker in the Chair.
Mrs S. Hanoomanjee
(Second Member for Savanne & Black River): Mr Speaker,
Sir,before I enter fully into the subject of conduct of examinations concerning
Asian languagestaught in extension schools, I just wish to pass a remark on the
motion itself – hon. MsDeerpalsing has just read the motion - but it says that
the House is of opinion that the MESshould collaborate with the existing
recognised institutions in conducting all examinations. Itsays the MES should
collaborate.
In my humble
opinion, Mr Speaker, Sir, the MES being an authority, the MES being anational
examination body, should it collaborate with the existing institution or because
it is anational authority, ultimately, it would be up to the existing
institution which would have tocollaborate with the MES or should we understand
that the MES would knock on the doors ofthese institutions and ask for their
collaboration? Why I am mentioning this, I think thissemantic is important in
the sense that, in the end, we may find the MES imposing all sorts ofconditions
on these institutions, but hon. Ms Deerpalsing just mentioned and I agree with
her to
the extent that MES
cannot come up and impose conditions on these institutions and decidesolely on
the conduct of these examinations. Une paranthèse aussi, M. le président,
when wetalk of ancestral languages and conduct of examinations. I just want to
mention in one sentenceand very briefly that there was a historical decision
also which was taken in 2004 by the thenGovernment for the recognition of
oriental languages at CPE level. Et le précédentgouvernement avait maintenu
la comptabilisation des langues orientales à part avec les autresmatières, ce
qui fait qu’aujourd’hui les langues orientales ont toute leur signification dans
le
cursus
scolaire.
Having said this, Mr
Speaker, Sir, I have gone through the speech of the mover of themotion, hon.
Surendra Dayal. From what I gathered from his speech, I see that one of his
qualmsis - and I am going to quote what he said then. I quote –
“Government has
obligated a sum of around Rs52 m. annually to assist these schools inthe
advancement of the ancestral languages.”
Rs52. M. is quite a
substantive amount of money. This is why in presenting this motion to thisHouse,
I wish to emphasise the need for harmonising the manner in which examinations
for theAsian languages are conducted for the award of certificates, diplomas,
but also for morejudicious use of public funds. I agree to the extent that we
have to make judicious use of publicfunds, but I am going to come up with some
arguments just to show whether right now these
institutions are not
making judicious use of those public funds. But, Mr Speaker, Sir, before
Ianalyse the gist of what has been said by hon. Dayal, and when I had to decide
on whether tospeak in favour or against this motion, I have taken the pain of
consulting some of theseinstitutions. I have studied the structure that they
have put in place since long, I have studied thelevel of teaching, the way
examinations are being carried out. Unfortunately, I could not get
all
of them but, at
least, I have been able to contact, talk and discuss with the Hindi
PrachariniSabha, to the National Urdu Institute, to the all Mauritius Tamil
Examinations Syndicate and tothe Mauritius Marathi Sahithia Parishad
Mr Speaker, Sir,
from what I gathered from these institutions, they are so well structuredand
doing such a fantastic job that I believe it would be a pity to interfere in
whatever way inwhat they are doing now. Let me explain. Hon. Ms Deerpalsing just
mentioned examples of theUnited States, she mentioned examples which she took
from Canada. But, we should, at thesame time, bear in mind that in Mauritius
already Asian languages are being taught in our
schools, be it at
primary or at secondary level, because in Mauritius we are a
multi-culturalsociety, il y a une diversité des cultures, il y a la
préservation des traditions et des cultures andthat these Asian languages
are also being taught in those schools. What we are talking of todayis the
informal way of teaching Asian languages. Mr Speaker, Sir, these institutions
exist -almost all of them - since 40 or 50 years. They all have designed
appropriate syllabuses, they allhave their own textbooks, which have been
designed by well qualified experts in the subjectsconcerned and which comprise
not only the language, but also there is a blend of culture andreligion in their
textbooks. They all carry out their examinations with confidentiality and all
theseriousness it deserves. Whilst discussing with them, they even pointed out
to me that, up to
now, the level at
which they’ve carried their examinations have been at a high level, and
thatthere has never been any question of leakages in the conduct of their
examinations. Tounderstand better, I’ll just give whatever information I have
had on each of these institutions, sothat we can understand where we are going.
The Hindi Pracharini Sabha has about 300 schoolsall around the island. It runs
evening classes for primary level students as well as secondary levelstudents.
Examinations for primary level are carried out by Mauritian examiners,
whereas
courses of secondary
level and tertiary level, that is, examinations for Parichaye, Prathama,Madyama
and Uttama, are conducted by the Hindi Sahithia Samelan of Allahbad India. That
is,these examinations are not carried out by Mauritian examining bodies, but by
examining bodiesin India. So, the question of recognition of certificates at
that point does not arise, same, MrSpeaker, Sir, for the Tamil Federations. They
have a body called the Mauritius TamilExamination Syndicate, and the Board
comprises of persons who are lecturers, educationofficers, retired inspectors of
schools, that is, persons who are very knowledgeable and who havea certain
expertise in the subject matter to devise their examination papers. They have
markingsystem as well, which is comparable to the MES, and which has stood the
test of time. And,
every year, students
of about 32 schools, which are affiliated to the institutions, take
theseexaminations.
As for the National
Urdu Institute, it also has a very high-level Board, which oversees
theexamination procedures, and it has chief examiners which set out the question
papers andorganise for correction in utmost confidentiality for students of Form
I to level of HSC. TheMarathi Sahithia Parishad, which runs courses for primary
and secondary level have about 500students taking final examinations each year,
and it is also affiliated to the Marathi SahithiaParishad in India. It is that
body in India which conducts its examinations. Again, it is not alocal body; it
is another body in India.
We can see, Mr
Speaker, Sir, that these institutions are working in a professional wayand, up
to now, nobody has complained about the way the exams are being carried out.
Whilst Iagree that we should move on, there should be certain level of progress
and development but, atthe same time, I don't think that we should come up with
certain decisions and impose these onthese people. I believe that we should be
able to take on board these institutions, have a certainlevel of debate with
them, discuss with them, and see how best we can move forward. I met
them
only yesterday, Mr
Speaker, Sir, and they’ve told me that, whilst they are concerned with
thepromotion of languages, they are also deeply concerned with the promotion of
culture andreligious practices, that is, when the courses are being held, at the
same time they teach theculture, they teach religious practices. They've drawn
my attention as well to the fact that theirown textbooks - I believe there has
been a decision somewhere to say that the textbooks whichare being used at
primary or secondary levels, there should not be any notion of religion in it
-
are not confined to
development of the language, to language only, ut also contain thecomponent of
culture and religion.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
these baitkas, madrassahs, mandirams, kovils have played an importantrole in
promoting cultural values and any sort of collaboration. If we say collaboration
with theMES, it would mean reviewing the whole syllabus. Their syllabus will
have to be reviewed; thetextbooks will have to be reviewed. I have tried to see
what would be the disadvantages of goinginto that sort of
collaboration.
First, the MES is
already overburdened with work. The MES will need personnel to setthe
examination papers. It will need invigilators, supervisors, moderators, and it
will need peopleto correct the examination papers also. At the same time, it
will have to ensure confidentiality.
Second, besides the
personnel required, there is also the question of cost. If the textbooksare
revised, will those students following the extension classes have to buy new
textbooks and, ifthey have, at what price would be these textbooks? Will they be
asked a certain amount of fees totake these examinations? Because there is a
cost component at the level of the MES, and weknow these students will have to
pay to take these exams. At the same time, we should also bearin mind that, at
present, all these institutions are working on a purely voluntary basis. They
arededicated people; they have at heart the promotion of languages, the
promotion of culturalvalues, and they are doing all this on a purely voluntary
basis. Government gives a certainamount of allowances only to the teachers, but
these people who are involved at the top arepeople who are dedicated and who do
voluntary social work.
Third, Mr Speaker,
Sir, there is the motivation of the people doing this social work. Ihave had the
privilege, during the past four years - I won’t say before - of visiting several
ofthose evening schools. I have had also the opportunity of attending several of
the functionsorganised for the distribution of certificates after these
examinations, and I have been able tonote the sense of satisfaction, the sense
of pride of these people who are at the top and whoconduct these examinations at
the end of the year.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
will repeat what I have just said, namely that we agree that we shouldnot impose
on them. But, at the same time, we should not demotivate these people. Let us
notdemotivate them; let us not destroy that spirit of voluntarism within these
institutions. Hon.Dayal, in his speech, said that –“It would be a good thing to
add value to the certificate and diploma being awarded bythese institutions”. I
agree that his intentions are very good, but at the same time, the waythat it
should be done - hon. Ms Deerpalsing has attempted to address the issue and
sayin what way the collaboration could be done, but I could not find any of
these in hon.Dayal’s speech, the way the collaboration should be
done.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
must also admit that this is beyond party politics, in spite of the factthat
hon. Dayal said in his speech that he had raised the issue with the
representatives of theorganisation concerned, I quote -“They are very
enthusiastic and supportive”.
But I am sorry, Mr
Speaker, Sir, I have to report the contrary. Maybe, in-between December andtoday
there had been a change in their attitude, but when I met them yesterday they
asked me tobe their mouthpiece and to say that they wish to continue the work
the way it is being done now.
They said that they
have started things years ago. They are fully satisfied with the courses,
theyare fully satisfied with the way that they have conducted these examinations
and that they wouldnot have in attendance so many students if the students
themselves, or the parents of thesestudents were not satisfied. In fact, there
are about 28,000 students in Hindi Language, more than16,000 in Urdu, about
4,000 in Tamil, about 900 in Telugu, more than 1,200 in Marathi and
about 700 in
Mandarin languages respectively. This brings me again to what hon. Dayal had
saidabout Government spending Rs52 m. on these institutions and making judicious
use of thesefunds. But what they say is what could be a better evidence than
what they have been doing,more than 50,000 students have been benefiting, and
continue to benefit, from these courses andobtain certificates which are already
recognised.
At the end of the
day, Mr Speaker, Sir, what I wish to say is that we have got to be
careful. There
cannot be any change brought about overnight. If there needs to be a change,
Iwould tend to agree with hon. Ms Deerpalsing and say that we have to be
cautious and we haveto see in what way that collaboration can be organised so
that, at the end of the day, whendecisions are taken, they are taken avec
consensus where these institutions also are partieprenante de la décision
du gouvernement.
Before ending, Mr
Speaker, Sir, I would like, as my other colleagues have done it,
congratulate these
pioneers, congratulate all those who are still ensuring the teaching of
AsianLanguages: Hindi, Tamil, Urdu, Marathi, Telugu and Mandarin, all those
people who have hadup to now a high sense of commitment, of duty, of
responsibility towards the preservation andreinforcement of our ancestral
languages and cultures. They have done it, they are still doing itand I don't
think that we should demotivate them by just roping in the MES but working
it
together with
them.
Thank you, Mr
Speaker, Sir.
(5.54
p.m)
Dr. P. Ramloll
(Third Member for Quartier Militaire & Moka): Mr Speaker, Sir, it
iswith a lot of emotion and nostalgia that I would like to put my contribution
on the mover of themotion of my colleague, hon. Surendra Dayal, which read, I
quote –“This House is of the opinion that the Mauritius Examinations Syndicate
should conductall examinations concerning Asian Languages taught in extensions
schools.”
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
just heard hon. Mrs Hanoomanjee talking about this word
‘collaborate’. Just
to avoid confusion on this very terminology, I would like to make it veryclear.
I think that the word itself speaks very clearly. It means, in the simple
English definition:‘to work jointly and to cooperate especially in literary and
artistic production’. It is aninteraction, but it is never an imposition. Both
ways, be it the MES, be it the existinginstitutions. It is an exchange of the
modus operandi. It is not that the MES is exercising itspower, Mr
Speaker, Sir. It is a partnership - a partnership in the true sense of the word
- aimingat the value, the existence, the perpetuation of Asian Languages which
is very, very dear to us.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
went through the previous exposé of my friend and colleague, hon. Dr.Mungur. In
fact, he had started by saying that if you fail to prepare, get prepared to
fail. I thinkthat is what our ancestors had in mind. Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam,
all the stalwarts, all theleaders at that time were shaping the future of this
country and that is why the Asian Languageshad a very special prime place in the
future of this country.
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
words ‘aware’ and ‘awareness’ seem very simple. They have
repeatedly cropped
up throughout. Sometimes, people are not aware of their culture, of
theirlanguage or their religion and, if they are aware, they are not practising
it the way it should be.
Hence, they cannot
attain the spiritual and religious growth. Thanks to Sir SeewoosagurRamgoolam,
we are aware of what is essential: awareness of the ancestral
language.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
would like to quote, with your permission, what Sir SeewoosagurRamgoolam had
said on 29 December 1942, during the 6th Meeting of the Select
Committee,appointed to study the Ward Report on Education. He was a member of
that Committee. I willjust quote part of it because it is quite long -“The
Indian community of this island has a strong attachment for its languages. Wemay
spend all our life learning other languages and imbibing other cultures, but
until weknow what is ours, we will never be able to become a man in the true
sense of the world nor wewill be able to understand and cherish our
culture.”
He goes on by saying
–“The Indians on this island must be taught their languages and that properly
andeffectively, because that is the only way in which they can preserve their
cultureand also because they have not the least intention of being
denationalised in theprocess of time.”
In 29 August 1986,
on the inaugural address of the Second World Hindi ConferenceConvention which
was held at the MGI, Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam again said, I quote – “It isour
belief that if the languages of Mauritius are preserved, it will help preserve
the essentialcultural values of our different communities. Though through the
synthesis of these variouscultures alone will create a united culture of
Mauritius in which we can corporate.”
So, this is all very
clear that language is just like God. It is intimately associated with us,so
intimately that it is part of us. Language remains the interface between man and
man. It isknown to everyone that language is power. But which power, Mr Speaker
Sir? It is power toread, to write, to communicate with the fellows. It is
related with goodness and wisdom. Nodoubt the path of language is very long, Mr
Speaker Sir. We need to work to assimilate it. Weare now at a point where we can
define what has been achieved in terms of evaluation of ourlanguages. We are now
conscious of the contribution of language to our well-being. In Latin, theword
‘conscious’ means, Mr Speaker Sir, ‘con’ means ‘with’, ‘cir’ means ‘to know’,
therefore‘conscious’ means ‘to know with’. Languages have helped us to know and
to re-know ourselves.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
feel very proud and privileged to speak on this motion at the sametime. I hail
from a village in the eastern part of the island and I am one of the lucky ones,
MrSpeaker Sir, who had studied, I should say, Hindi just up to Standard VI in
the extension classes.
And I am also the
few lucky ones who have been blessed by Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolambefore
proceeding for my medical studies to India. I have taken full use of what free
education isand I have also been among the few lucky ones to have continued in
the political arena andpresently forming part of a Government under his son, Dr.
Navinchandra Ramgoolam. No doubt,I have been also lucky to been have initiated
in politics and economic independence by SirAnerood Jugnauth. Why I say all
this, Mr Speaker Sir, it is only because it is only through
language and
education that one’s character, one’s future is shaped, what he is going to
become.
With your
permission, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to go down memory lane on
Asianlanguages, very briefly, because my colleagues have spoken on this issue
before. I should notonly congratulate but pay tribute to the pioneers, to the
architects, to the visionaries whocontributed to the initiation, the promotion,
the propagation and the preservation of ancestrallanguages. We know very well,
Mr Speaker, Sir, those days about the evening classes, thebaitkas, the
madrassahs, the muktabs, the kovils, the mundirams and the Chinese classes. What
is
very important is to
know the change in the trend of the teachings in the past and in the
presentdays, Mr Speaker, Sir. In those days, those who were teaching these Asian
languages, they did iton a voluntary basis without any remuneration. Themselves,
without diplomas and degrees, MrSpeaker, Sir! Why? As hon. Dr. David had said,
in his presentation, I was very much pleased to
go through his
speech because some of the words speak for themselves. They did it, Mr
Speaker,Sir, for the love of culture. This is what hon. Dr. David said in his
exposé of last time.
It is only through
languages that culture can transcend from generation to generation. MrSpeaker,
Sir, to ensure transmission of cultural values from generation to generation,
thereshould be a relentless appeal to the elders, to keep on transmitting this
cultural enriches asMinister David said again. This is how like me, many of us
have benefited from these teachings,Mr Speaker, Sir, like many of us
here.
Let me say, Mr
Speaker, Sir, the little Hindi I learnt in those days, allowed me to read,
towrite, to understand and to deliver even a complete film dialogue while I was
studying medicalstudies in India. My Indian fellows could not understand how a
Mauritian could speak such goodHindi and sometimes Urdu and played music as
well. They would not understand that inMauritius we have such students who have
so much of good mastery of the language. This iswhat somehow I understand
proudly, I should say, that many of us in this House have studied inIndia and I
think all of us have gone through the same feelings and the same
situations.
Mr Speaker, Sir, we
have been the true ambassadors as Mauritian students in India andelsewhere, in
other countries, as well. I have the feeling that the political ties that have
beenconsolidated between India and Mauritius, we students we have a small
contribution by creatingthis image that we, in Mauritius, we are at par as far
as language, culture, teaching and educationare concerned, Mr Speaker, Sir. This
is a big achievement, Mr Speaker Sir.
Let me come to some
statistics of the Asian languages. I think my colleagues have justsaid it. We
know that we have around 52,000 students studying Asian languages, 29,000
aroundin Hindi, 17,000 in Urdu, 4,500 in Tamil, 1,000 in Telugu, 1,500 in
Marathi and 700 inMandarin. As far as these evening schools are concerned, Mr
Speaker, Sir, we have 450 schoolsteaching Hindi, Urdu 250, Tamil 60, Telugu 25,
Marathi 25 and Mandarin 6. The budgetaryallocations for these as we just heard
also are Rs52 m. earmarked by Government.
As far as
remuneration is concerned, Mr Speaker, Sir, Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam, forthe
first time, he allocated Rs300 for these teachers. In 1999, Dr. Navinchandra
Ramgoolam, thethen Prime Minister increased this. For those teachers who had a
School Certificate: Rs1,000;those who had an HSC: Rs1,500 and those who had a
degree: Rs3,000, Mr Speaker, Sir. Mycolleague, hon. Mrs Dookun-Luchoomun was
querying like hon. Mrs Hanoomanjee about the
money, about the
funds that may have to be made available. We know that this collaboration
is
going to come. But
let me reassure them, Mr Speaker, Sir, that when education was made free
by
Sir Seewoosagur
Ramgoolam, no one was aware they had no formula at hand, they just started
it.
But it is with
wisdom, with vision that the then Government under the leadership of
Sir
Seewoosagur
Ramgoolam found the necessary funds for running these classes.
This was at the time
when free education was on the agenda of the then Government. Mr
Speaker, Sir, let us
speak of the situation today. In the worst era of the world economy,
Mr
Speaker, Sir, these
days, Mauritius, a small island State, has sailed through the most
turbulent
waters, the most
rough seas, the cyclonic winds, the grey skies and there has been no sun at
all.
But with the vision
of the Vice-Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, hon. Dr. Sithanen,
and
the input of the
hon. Prime Minister, Dr. Navinchandra Ramgoolam, we have invented, what
I
call, the economic
agenda of present Mauritius, Mr Speaker, Sir.. We have the vision, we
have
taken the decisions
and let me tell to certain of my colleagues who are a bit unaware or
query
about the funds,
that for progress in education there is no cost for it. We will look for funds
and
we will have them
made available for the nation.
Mr Speaker, Sir, we
are now coming to, what I call, the winds are fading, the waters are
silent, the sky is
getting clearer, the sun is rising. We can design a new formula for the
financial
situation of the
country. This is not a worry for us, Mr Speaker, Sir. I should pay tribute also
to
the existing
institutions: the Arya Sabha, the Hindi Pracharini Sabha, the federations,
namely the
Tamil Temple
Federation, the Marathi Mandali Federation, the Urdu Speaking Union,
the
National Urdu
Institute, the Chinese schools. They all have been all the time been involved
in
ancestral language
teachings and examinations. The Arya Sabha and the Hindi Pracharini
Sabha,
Mr Speaker, Sir,
have been collaborating with the Hindi Sahitya Sammelan Prayag of
Alabad
University in
preparing and correcting examination papers by our institutions. And who does
not
know this
institution, Mr Speaker, Sir? Just to give a few examples, they have produced
famous
names: Harivansh Rai
Bachchan - he is from Alabad University - who is the famous poet.
His
son, Amitabh
Bachchan, the international mega star and Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru is also
a
product of Alabad
University.
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
National Equivalence Council has not found any flaw so far in all
the machinery in
conducting exams for oriental languages, be it in any subject. The
collaboration
with the MES is
vital. Why I say that? It is no secret to anybody that it is a
professional
examining body. It
has the experienced staff. It has the experience in conducting exams. It
has
the organisational
expertise and capacity. What I believe, Mr Speaker, Sir, is that it
will
uniformise the exams
and the standard of these languages. It will harmonise the syllabuses.
It
will bring national
and international recognition to the certificates and diplomas. Mr
Speaker,
Sir, it will
encourage students to go for Asian languages at HSC and degree levels. Degrees
and
diplomas will earn,
what I can say, acceptability and respectability, Mr Speaker, Sir. This
motion
is aimed at a
synergy. Hon. Minister Anil Bachoo always says: wherever there is a
confluence,
wherever there is
Sangam, wherever there is confluence, Alabad is one place where there is
the
confluence of Ganga
and Jamuna and we know the effect of the confluence. Here also,
whenever
we have the
confluence of the MES and these institutions I have referred to nothing else,
but the
best of products can
be achieved.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
academic bodies of Asian languages working in collaboration with the
MES is the reason
why this motion has been brought to the House today. It has, of course,
added
value, better
products and better results. This will bring about understanding, perpetuation
of
ancestral languages,
the transmission of cultural values from generation to generation and
finally
a vital element of
social harmony, Mr Speaker, Sir, towards nation building which is so dear
to
us in
Mauritius.
Thank you, Mr
Speaker, Sir.
(6.16
p.m.)
The Minister of
Foreign Affairs, Regional Integration and International Trade
(Dr.
A.
Boolell): Mr Speaker, Sir,
when the Chief Whip moved a motion that the MES should
collaborate with
existing recognised institutions in conducting all exams concerning
Asian
languages taught in
extension schools, his object was neither to rise, nor to fall on such
a
sensitive motion. In
fact, this is a motion which is impregnated with substance and we, of
course,
have to tread
cautiously because this is a motion whose substance is the very essence of
national
unity. Of course,
our friend, hon. Suren Dayal, made it a point to discuss the issue with
all
relevant bodies. In
fact, there was wide discussion at the bar of public opinion and it is not
the
first time that he
has raised this issue. Perhaps it is the first time that there is a Private
Members’
Motion on this
issue. But being a prominent member of the Arya Samaj Movement and a
stalwart in the
promotion, preservation and protection of ancestral languages, our friend
has
made it a point to
raise the issue and discuss very forcefully, interact very intently, with
the
Hindi Pracharini
Sabha, with the Arya Sabha of Mauritius, the Mauritius Arya Ravived
Pracharini Sabha,
the Urdu Speaking Union, the Tamil Temple Federation, the Andhra
Maha
Sabha, the Mauritius
Marathi Mandali Federation and I am sure he also interacted with the
Chinese
Federation.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
this Government puts a lot of premium on the promotion, protection
and
preservation of
ancestral languages. In fact, the very foundation of the Mauritius Labour Party
is
based on the
transmission of these ancestral values. Having said so, we do not believe in
the
tyranny of the
majority. In fact, we have to be grateful that we are in a country which is a
secular
country with a
strong pluralistic dimension. In today’s world where globalization has
become
inevitable and with
the constant breakthrough in communication and technology, there is a
new
world which is
emerging and there is the emergence of a bundle of minorities. It is
precisely
based on these
values that today we have to congratulate those unsung heroes. We have to
say
loud and clear, Mr
Speaker, Sir, if it were not for them, there would have been the demise
of
language and,
therefore, culture.
We just have to look
elsewhere, in Réunion Island, for example, the French,
unfortunately, with
their policy of assimilation, have tried to undermine the values,
ancestral
languages, culture
which we cherish and we imbibe. In Mauritius things have been
different.
Perhaps, to some
extent, we have to pay tribute to some of those British Governors who
had
worked in India and
had made some attempt to preserve Indian languages and culture, but
others
were dead against
and, in fact, if we have to refer to the world reports where it is stated
very
clearly that
Government cannot fork out money to support those who are keen to study
ancestral
languages. The
gentleman, then liaison officer, stood up and put across the case of the
Indian
people very
forcefully and the object was to be in line with what Mahatma Gandhi had
preached
-
“If you want to put
up a fight, if you want to fight for what is a just cause, first and
foremost, learn the
language of the colonial masters. Then, be active in politics.”
This is the
relevance of Baitkas, Mr Speaker, Sir, of Madrassahs, of other sites where
other
Oriental languages
are taught. Those people, there and then, Mr Speaker, Sir, were not
paid,
neither in kind nor
cash, but they had the political will, the will to preserve what the value was
of
prime importance to
their community, the safeguarding of ancestral values and languages.
Despite all the
odds, all the prejudices, without fear, they stood up to preserve the
ancestral
languages and
culture, Mr Speaker, Sir. Those unsung heroes were the beacons of
their
transmission of what
we cherish today and what our forefathers cherished then. In fact, we
pay
tribute to those
unsung heroes. This is where we beg to differ with our good friend, hon.
Mrs
Hanoomanjee. It is
not the first time, but it happens, more than once…
(Interruptions)
Battle of the roses,
but not battle of the sexes!
Mr Speaker, Sir, we
have to be practical, pragmatic and realistic despite the fact that
we
are all very keen to
move into the mainstream of our ethnicity, for economic, educational
or
political reasons,
but we need this cross fertilization to be a good citizen and this is what
we
learned from our
forefathers, those who dispense and impart knowledge to the kids in
the
Madrassahs, in the
Baitkas, etc. But then, Mr Speaker, Sir, hon. Mrs Hanoomanjee was wrong
to
say one, that there
was no discussion. As I have stated, there was wide discussion. In fact,
the
views of our friends
were taken on board and this is precisely the reason why our good
friend,
hon. Surendra Dayal,
moved an amendment to the original motion. That was the voice of
reason
and wisdom and this
is precisely the values that we, in the Labour Party, in the Alliance
Sociale,
we cherish, pay
heed, listen, take stock, exchange information, react promptly, be active
and
proactive. This is
what it is all about. When hon. Mrs Hanoomanjee stated, only the day
before,
she interacted, she
had a meeting and it was her responsibility to assuage these feelings and
to
ensure that things
become rosy, let me tell her, in fact, we’ve prepared the rosy bed with petals
of
rose and not petals
of dust. And what did we tell our friends? Miss Roses has thorns, but
they
pick only those who
are nasty.
(Interruptions)
What did we tell
them? Of course, we interacted with our good friend, Mr Matabadul. We
were
full of praise for
him and, in fact, we told him “Had it not been for your organisation,
this
community would have
been neither here nor there.” We reminded him that the Hindi
Pracharini
Sabha started in
1926, an organisation which was set up to weave the unity and solidarity
within
that community and,
of course, which would later on be embedded within a large framework
of
national unity. This
is precisely what was taught. The values of the scriptures don’t teach
things
that are not
relevant to emancipation, the values of tolerance of being virtuous, Mr Speaker,
Sir.
So, when there is
the milk of human kindness, you cannot but turn out to be a good human
being
and this is what
citizenship is all about, Mr Speaker, Sir. This is what tolerance is all about.
This
is, Mr Speaker, Sir,
the very chariot of fire of this religion, but then we have to make sure - as
I
have said - that we
do it, extending the hand of friendship and love to our neighbours; love
thy
neighbour as one
loves thyself and this is what it is all about. When hon. Ms Deerpalsing
stated
that we have created
a climate of uncertainty, her argument hovers in thin air and I did expect
the
hon. lady to hover
in thin air, because she carries more weight and better substance.
Let me also refer to
something which is relevant to what we’ve discussed. When I stated
that we have to be
thankful to our friends, those movers of the movement, the Hindi
Pracharini
Sabha and of the
good work they’ve done because we have to sometimes sympathies with
our
friends of Afro
descent, and if I have to refer to what Mr Hira said in a paper written by him
and
which has been
published in a book entitled ‘Multicultural Society’ and the conference,
of
course, saw the
participation of many eminent people and there was an excellent speech,
as
usual, delivered by
hon. Dr. James Burty David. Let me just refer to this great loss which
was
highlighted by Mr
Hira. There is a lot of truth in the popular saying: If you want to destroy
a
culture, destroy its
language first and the culture will die a natural death. For historical
reasons,
none of the African
languages have survived in Mauritius and so have their cultures. Referring
to
this great loss,
Hira has this to say –
“All that remains of
Africa is the séga and a little bit of witchcraft. It is indeed a
great
loss to Mauritius
and to the people whose ancestors came from Madagascar,
Mozambique, Senegal,
Gambia and other parts of Africa. They have been, for
generations,
cultural derelicts, looking for an identity after being deculturalised. In
the
light of such a
catastrophe, one would wish that for once, history must not repeat
itself.”
And this is
precisely what the Labour Party did shortly after independence, removed
a
Eurocentric from the
mainstream of the Mauritian culture and introduced instead in a
pluralistic
society, the
pluri-cultural dimension and when the AOU conference was held in Mauritius
in
1976, the object, Mr
Speaker, Sir, was to give new thrust to the Afro/Mauritian community.
That
was a period of
redemption and this is what the Government has constantly been
doing,
empowering those at
the lowest rung of the ladder, irrespective of community, colour, creed
or
caste, Mr Speaker,
Sir. This is the very essence of this motion. This is why I say that
this
motion which has
been introduced by our friend, hon. Surendra Dayal is impregnated
with
meaning and
substance. What we read extends beyond new horizon and this is a new dawn,
a
new era. This is why
I say the policy of this Government is in consonance with values
preached
by those unsung
heroes.
Let me, Me Speaker,
Sir, come back to the relevance of Hindi because whether we like it
or not, today, Mr
Speaker, Sir, Hindi has become a universal language and it is the most
spoken
of all oriental
languages in the world and to impress upon our friends on the Opposition that
the
seriousness of
purpose, the Hindi Pracharini Sabha Bill was introduced in this House
and
enacted. So, how can
we, as a responsible Government, see to it that there is going to be
encroachment by the
MES? Under no circumstances, you cannot, Mr Speaker, Sir, with the
stroke of a pen,
erase the contribution of such a Sabha to emancipation, to enable this country
to
forge national
unity.
So, the MES, as has
been stated, and hon. Dr. James Burty David made a very good
point: why can’t we
have a proper framework? Why can’t we have a Memorandum of
Understanding? It is
true that the demarcation line - between those examining bodies,
between
those recognised
institutions and MES - is going to be wide. But if we want to meet
the
challenges of
change, Mr Speaker, Sir, we have to cross that line and forge our thoughts
towards
a common objective,
that is, to give new value to the degrees or diploma being awarded by
the
Hindi Pracharini
Sabha or for that matter any relevant recognised body. And it is
relevant
because there is a
need for proper symbiotic approach. There is a need for proper
harmonisation.
The resources that
one lacks can make up for the shortcomings of the other and vice-versa.
In
today’s world, we
have to put emphasis upon dialogue and it is dialogue that helps to ease off
a
lot of tension. And
this is precisely one of the many reasons as to why this Bill is
being
introduced and
Government has been consistent I’ve said over and above the Rs52 m.
earmarked
and released upfront
to fund the running of those recognised institutions. Of course, we want
to
do more, we can do
more, Mr Speaker, Sir, nothing stops us because, as I have stated, we have
to
put the premium on
national unity and we have to forge that national solidarity, Mr Speaker,
Sir.
So, there is no
question of demotivation. If anything, we are creating a climate of
confidence; it is a
new era and our friends know perfectly well that if they want to move ahead,
if
they want to move up
the beaten track, Mr Speaker, Sir, they have to forge that relationship
with
MES. That stands to
reason. What make things a little bit difficult is perception and not
reality.
What they are
saying, Mr Speaker, Sir, those people who have been trained and have
been
awarded a diploma,
unfortunately, when they apply to be recruited as teachers, they feel that
they
don’t get their due
although they are qualified and that the award which they have obtained is
not
taken into
consideration despite the fact that they have this additional edge over those
who
simply have School
Certificate or HSC. It is more of a perception than reality because
the
diploma is
recognised by the Ministry of Education and when recruitment is made by PSC,
there
is no problem, but
there has been that perception and we have to make sure that we dissipate
it
and the only way to
do so is through dialogue.
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
world today is facing conflicts and everybody is talking of
intercultural and
interfaith dialogue. Why is it that between two institutions which
have
contributed so much
to empowerment and emancipation, relevant to the cause of national
unity,
to the preservation
of language, protection of culture, promotion of ancestral values,
nothing
stops those
institutions to get together. But, of course, MES should not give the perception
that it
is overpowering.
What is needed is a proper consultation and, through consultation and
dialogue,
establish a clear
framework, look at areas where there is commonality of interest, and then
move
the process
forward.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
today, there is every reason to be proud. In this pluralistic society
of
ours, not only do we
put premium upon our ancestral language, culture, but there are many
young people who
have shown the zeal to acquire those values. This commitment, Mr
Speaker,
Sir, is loaded with
hope, and we can proudly say that, as a Government, since the early days,
we
have done everything
within our means to create that platform of hope and to instil new values
in
the young
generations. Despite certain recrimination and unwarranted criticism in 1979,
the then
Prime Minister was
right to bring Oriental teachers at par with General Purpose teachers.
We
know the
recrimination and bitterness that this provoked. But, ultimately, the good
sense
prevailed and,
again, through dialogue and intercultural faith, everybody was on board;
the
Roman Catholic
Education Authority, to whom we could never ever say ‘thank you’ for what
it
is doing and what it
has done in the past to propagate those values and to encourage
mobility
through an
investment, which we all cherish and which we call education.
But let me, before I
conclude, Mr Speaker, Sir, remind our friends what successive
governments have
been doing, but more than any successive government, the government
under
the able leadership
of Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam and, now, Navinchandra Ramgoolam.
In respect of the
evening schools, since 1976, allowances were granted to teachers
involved in the
promotion of languages, cultural activities, arts and religious activities.
These
activities, Mr
Speaker, Sir, were organised by socio cultural organisations in
government
buildings; baitkas,
temples, madrassahs. To ensure the implementation of the project, a
whole
system was put into
place with the directors, principals, school inspectors, desk
officers,
teachers; pupils’
ratio and all these issues were looked into. Desk officers had to, in each
zone,
look after the
processing of files, attendance, returns, calculation of allowances,
registration of
schools,
registration of new teachers and correspondences. They also keep plan of
visiting
officers and collect
all their visit reports, etc.
What we are trying
to convey, Mr Speaker, Sir, is that the system is well structured.
But,
there is always room
for improvement. This is why I say that we constantly need to meet up
the
challenges of
change. Government, of course, has always a droit de regard, and it would
not hurt
anybody's feeling
nor should we be seen to send the wrong signals if we say that MES
would
have a droit de
regard. This is what has been occurring since a very long time, because, as
we
have said, the exams
of the higher level are conducted under the umbrella of a recognised
institution from
India. So, Mr Speaker, Sir, our friends on the Opposition bench can rest
their
worries and
concerns. This is a Government, which is responsible, and when our friend,
hon.
Surendra Dayal,
moved the motion, he mentioned the merits of the motion. Of course, there is
no
demerit to the
motion that he has introduced. If anything, the object and purpose of this
motion is
not only to meet the
challenges of change, but also to strengthen existing organisations. Why is
it
that we need to
strengthen those organisations? Because we have responsibilities, as
decision
makers, to give all
support to those registered institutions that constantly help in nation
building.
Thank you very
much.
(6.47
p.m)
Mr R. Guttee (Third
Member of Grand’ Baie & Poudre D’or): Mr Speaker,
Sir,
allow me, as most of
the previous speakers, to congratulate hon. Dayal for bringing this
motion
to this House. Hon.
Dayal is the Chief Whip of the Government, a permanent member of the
Arya Sabha, but the
most important part is that he is one of the managers of the
extension
schools being run in
this country. We are sure that, being a member of the Arya Samaj,
and
being in the
extension school, he has got enough experience, he has had many
consultations
before coming with
that motion. If I can take the liberty to say a very wise saying, namely
-
“You don't pull the
tail of a sleeping dog; you can face many reactions”.
I think that when
hon. Dayal came with the first motion, there were so many good
reactions and,
sometimes, reactions not really biased. He came with a motion to amend
it,
namely that the
Mauritius Examinations Syndicate should collaborate - the word is
very
important - with the
existing recognised institutions in conducting the examinations
concerning
Asian languages
taught in extension schools. This word ‘collaboration’ means that the
Mauritius
Examinations
Syndicate, being itself a very professional body, has got all of the reasons and
the
ability to guide as
far as conducting examinations are concerned. When we speak of
extension
schools, these two
words bring much emotion to many of us in this House. I am sure that,
like
me, many of us are
products of the extension schools. When we speak of a school today,
the
child has in his
mind a very good concrete building, with a vast playing ground, and all
the
amenities like
water, good chairs and tables to sit, write and look at the board.
Those were the times
when the extension schools started. It was just the
“Shantiniketan”
of Rabindranath
Tagore that came in this country. All the schoolsthat I am speaking of, at
that
time, started under
a tree. And when I stand in this House today, and speaking of this, I say it
is
emotional because I
find myself sitting on a stone under a big tree and, at the side, a small
sad
roof called the
Baitka, not even a concrete thing, with not even a light, a chalk or
blackboard.
The Guruji, after
having worked in the field – he is not even a teacher, he worked in the
sugar
fields - came in the
evening voluntarily; he called the children of the villages around and we
all
assembled, and we
started with a prayer. And this is what is emotional, every school started
with
a prayer and the
Guruji started teaching us. The materials being taught were those of culture,
of
values and this had
to grow to that language. And we speak the Asian Language. We called
them our ancestral
languages, be it Hindi, Tamil or Telegu. Every language has the same
weightage and the
same value as far as cultures and values are concerned.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
allow me also to pay tribute to those people who have worked in the
Baitkas, in the
Madrassahs, in the Kovils, in the Chinese institutions or anywhere they could
find
a place to help the
community to regenerate their cultures, the different values. That's why
that
makes a difference
today, a difference between the students of those days and the students
of
today, because we
feel the lack of the culture, the lack of the values that had been taught to us
in
those days. If we
have lived with our languages, it is because of the relentless struggle of
those
pioneers who have
worked out without the aim of getting money or without the wish of getting
a
living out of this
teaching in the extension schools. It is due to the hard work and
the
perseverance to keep
the Asian Languages by so many unknown persons that we, today, can
stand in this House
and speak about collaborating and bringing some more water to the mills,
to
the factories of
those extension schools.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
there is no doubt when we speak about the MES collaborating with the
Baitkas and with
other extension schools, with all those institutions that are recognised by
the
Ministry of
Education & Human Resources. When we speak of them there is that fear, as
has
been pointed out by
some of the Members of the Opposition. There is a fear that we are
willing
that the Mauritius
Examinations Syndicate takes over all the work that has been done by
those
pioneers and the
work that is being done today by the extension schools, whether it is in
the
evening classes or
even classes during the weekends - that is not so. What we are trying to say
by
this motion is that
what has been done and what is being done can be also improved, and
to
improve what we are
looking for is because MES, as we say it, has got this professionalism,
has
got that staff also
that can help, advise and conduct examinations under the leadership of
the
MES together with
the collaboration of all the extension schools and teachers that are working
in
these
schools.
The motion is that
the MES should collaborate with the recognised institutions in
organising different
examinations. Now, I would like here to just make a point. Why do we
stress that the MES
should collaborate to organise examinations, being from the Hindi belt, I
will
take an example from
the Hindi institution, if I am may say. The Mauritius Arya Sabha
runs
different schools in
this country and, therefore, at the end of the year, the Sabha
organises
examinations. The
questionnaire are prepared by themselves and, therefore they organise
the
examinations. There
is nothing wrong in that. Similarly, the Mauritius Ravived Sabha also
runs
different extension
classes and, therefore, at the end of the year, will normally prepare
the
examination papers
and therefore will hold the examinations. And similarly goes to
other
institutions,
everybody preparing his own questionnaires.
Now taking the Hindi
Language only, if I may say, there are three recognised institutions
that prepare the
examinations. The Arya Sabha has all the different examination papers;
the
Mauritius Ravived
Sabha has got a different examination paper, the Hindi Prachaya Sabha
has
got a different
examination paper. Now what we want to say about this ...
Mr
Speaker: May I interrupt
the hon. Member? He is left with only with three minutes. I
think he will not
finish his speech so I’ll ask him to move for the adjournment of the
debate.
Mr
Guttee: Mr Speaker, Sir, I
beg to move that the debate be now adjourned. This will
give me some more
time to come to this later on.
Dr. Ramloll rose and
seconded.
Question put and
agreed to.
Debate adjourned
accordingly.
ADJOURNMENT
The Prime
Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, I
beg to move that this Assembly do now adjourn
to Tuesday 20
October 2009, at 11.30 a.m.
The Deputy Prime
Minister rose and seconded.
Question put and
agreed to.
Mr
Speaker: The House stands
adjourned.
PRIVATE MEMBERS’
MOTION
ASIAN LANGUAGES –
EXTENSION SCHOOLS – EXAMINATIONS (18/01/10)
Order read for
resuming adjourned debate on the following motion of the Second
Member for Quartier
Militaire & Moka (Mr S. Dayal):
“This House is of
opinion that the Mauritius Examinations Syndicate should
collaborate with the
existing recognized institutions in conducting all examinations
concerning Asian
Languages taught in extension schools”.
Question again
proposed.
Mr R. Guttee (Third
Member for Grand’Baie and Poudre D’or): It is indeed
an
honour for me to
stand up once more to speak on the motion presented by hon. Surendra
Dayal.
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
House may recall that the original motion that the MES should conduct
all
examinations was
amended. The motion now stands as –
“This House is of
opinion that the Mauritius Examinations Syndicate should
collaborate with the
existing recognized institutions in conducting all examinations
concerning Asian
Languages taught in extension schools”.
20
Therefore, in brief,
I will recall the points that I made during my last intervention and
then continue with a
few more points concerning the above motion. Mr Speaker, Sir, after
paying
tribute to the
pioneers, teachers, helpers and well wishes for their contribution in keeping
our
ancestral languages,
that is, the Asian languages alive, I said that “the extension schools are
well
organised under the
supervision of the Ministry of Education and the Human Resources and
that
the extension
schools are doing very well”.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
allow me to quote a few figures from the status report from the
Ministry
of Education and
Human Resources concerning the extension schools –
“There are a total
of seven hundred and eighty-three schools in different part of the
island
teaching the Asian
languages which are Hindi, Urdu, Tamil, Telegu, Marathi and
Mandarin.
Some one thousand
nine hundred and twelve teachers are involved teaching some
fifty-two
thousand four
hundred and seventy-four students in the extension classes. Teachers
deliver
teaching for a
minimum of twelve hours monthly and are entitled to allowance according to
their
qualifications that
is School Certificate, Higher School Certificate or degree holders.
Classes are held
either in the evening on week days or for half days on weekends.
Presidents and
managers of schools monitor the smooth running of the school whereas
supervisors and
assistant supervisors make frequent visit to schools and they are remunerated
for
that”.
Mr Speaker, Sir, my
point was that the MES can guide, can help and collaborate with the
existing
institutions to conduct the examinations. I proposed that there should be a
common
syllabus for each
language respectively. There should be common textbooks and there should
be
common exam papers.
Having said so, Mr Speaker, Sir, to come to this common programme of
work that I proposed
there should be exchange of views between the MES and all the
existing
institutions.
Workshops, seminars are options to be considered so as to get acquainted with
the
different ways and
means to come to a consensus just to avoid any frustration and any sign
of
discouragement or
disincentive for the continuation of the good work being done by the
existing
institutions.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
what do we want through this motion is to have a uniformity in
teaching
and conducting the
examinations. The MES can guide us and it is well placed for that job.
There
21
should be upgrading
of the teaching and therefore also the international recognition of
the
certificates awarded
for the examinations through the different institutions.
For sure Mr Speaker,
Sir, a lot of work has been done and is still being done. It is due
to
the excellent work
done throughout the island by these different institutions that today we
have
come to the creation
of the different cultural centres in this country. The credit goes to
them,
those unknown
teachers of our ancestral languages. Had they not kept the languages alive,
it
would have been hard
for cultural centres to start afresh. That is why we say that after
covering
such a long and hard
journey, we still have to go a long way. Hence the MES should
collaborate
and facilitate to
make the journey pleasant.
Mr Speaker, Sir, on
the other hand, cultural centres are playing an important role in
keeping the cultural
values alive, that is why they are being given subsidies by the
Government.
Similarly, the
extension schools and different evening classes and classes run during
the
weekend play an
important role in keeping the cultural values alive. All they need is a
boost-up
and encouragement to
continue in this noble cause. These schools are in fact mini
cultural
centres in every
town and village of this country.
The Mauritius
Examination Syndicate is a professional examining body, therefore
the
collaboration of the
Mauritius Examination Syndicate with the different extension schools
would
be of vital
importance. These mini cultural centres would get inspiration and would not be
left on
their own. The
collaboration would be of great encouragement and I have no doubt that
the
extension schools in
the different languages would be very happy to welcome the guidance
and
collaboration of the
MES. Mr Speaker, Sir, when we speak of facilitator the MES so far has
been
conducting exams in
different bodies and has given satisfactory results.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
spoke to some of the stakeholders of the different institutions,
they
explained to me that
they have an apprehension that if the MES conducts the examination,
the
exam fees may be
high and, therefore, not within the reach of all the students. For example, I
am
told that the
Certificate of Primary Education exams conducted by the MES costs about
Rs3000
per student whereas
the existing institutions hold examinations that cost only about Rs500
per
student. Therefore,
the motion that the MES should collaborate with the stakeholders
stands
good because there
is always room for improvement. The different stakeholders can, at
least,
start to contemplate
over the issues. Sitting round a table and discuss and find out solutions
does
more good than any
harm. All the issues, whether it be the cost of holding the exams, using
the
22
number of
invigilators, the regions the exams to be held and so many other issues, should
be
taken on
board.
M. le président, la
lumière au bout du tunnel will be found once
the dialogue between the
MES and the
different stakeholders starts.
Any long journey
starts with a first step. I am convinced that once the idea of
collaboration is
accepted, the work can start. It suffices to have a positive thinking
and
conviction that
whatever is discussed should be in the interest of the students, the upliftment
of
our ancestral
languages and, of course, something good pour ce pays arc-en-ciel que
nous
aimons tant, M. le
président.
Mr Speaker, Sir, in
my concluding note, allow me to pay a tribute to those pioneers of
this noble cause.
They had a mission: to keep the Asian languages - our ancestral language
-
alive and use them
as a source of inspiration to bring peace and harmony with the
different
cultures in the
different communities.
It is now our turn
to support this commitment. Let us all wish that this motion be
passed
for the benefit of
one and all. Let us not fail in our duty to preserve and propagate our
ancestral
languages, our
values and our cultures, the symbol of our identity.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
thank you.
(4.12
p.m.)
The Minister of
Industry, Science and Research (Mr D. Gokhool): Mr Speaker, Sir,
I
am very happy to
take the floor and say a few words on the motion that is before the
House.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
this motion relates to an issue with direct relevance to our cultural
and
linguistic heritage
and also the influence that cultural and linguistic diversity can have on
the
developmental
processes of a society. I’ll elaborate on this issue later.
Mr Speaker, Sir, on
12 December 2009, my good friend, hon. Suren Dayal, the Chief
Whip of the
Government, presented a motion to the House which was subsequently amended
and
the new motion reads
as follows:
“This House is of
the opinion that the Mauritius Examinations Syndicate should
collaborate with the
existing recognized institutions in conducting all examinations
concerning Asian
languages taught in extension schools”.
23
Mr Speaker, Sir, in
presenting and developing his motion, hon. Dayal, who is an
experienced academic
not only as a teacher, but also as an administrator of the Aryan
Vedic
School, is directly
involved in the promotion and propagation of Hindi. Hon. Dayal
commented
on the situation of
Asian languages in Mauritius both from a historical and a
contemporary
perspective. In
fact, he resumed the situation as follows -
‘The schools
providing evening classes or extension classes are 783 in number.
The student
population is 52,474 and the teachers 1912. The budget amounts to
Rs52 m.’
Once the motion was
submitted, my good friend hon. Dayal went around talking again to
the stakeholders and
came back with this amendment because this is such an issue where we
have to move in a
consensual manner. We have to move by consulting in a collaborative
approach. This is
the spirit. In this spirit, he came back and amended the motion so that
the
motion now reads as
I have mentioned.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
during the debates on the amendment of the motion, we have heard
orators from both
sides of the House and it is clear that, on both sides of the House, there
is
consensus about the
efforts and contributions of pioneers, those people who had made
tremendous
sacrifices and efforts for the promotion and propagation of Asian languages
at
different stages of
our history. This has to be commended and I associate myself to the
tribute
that has been paid
to those pioneers and those who have contributed to the propagation
and
promotion of Asian
languages.
The orator also
underlined the role and contribution of late SSR. In fact, he has a
very
important
contribution in uplifting the Asian languages and, of course, it was very
critical in
terms of the stand
he took that languages are very important for the people. People’s identity
is
recognised with a
culture and languages. It is very strong in his thinking and he supported
all
efforts that were
being made for the propagation and promotion of Asian languages. Of
course,
subsequent
Governments improve on that and today we have the situation that we
have.
The third issue that
was mentioned was the role and contribution that MES would make.
It is important to
know, Mr Speaker, Sir, that MES conducts some 100 examinations -
local,
regional and
international. We know that in terms of logistics, in terms of resources, MES is
not
equipped to take
much more workload unless the resources are provided. So, these were
the
24
points which were
made and I think the issue now is: should MES be involved in the conduct
of
examinations taught
in the evening schools and why? This is the first issue.
Mr Speaker, Sir, as
we look at the status of Asian languages, the examinations are being
conducted by various
examination bodies, but the point is that whatever examinations are
sanctioned by MES
gain a recognition whether it is local or international. This is a fact.
So,
associating MES with
these examinations would be nothing but add to the recognition of
these
Asian languages. It
will enhance the recognition of these languages. Definitely, it is going
to
strengthen the
status of the languages. We all recognise that languages constitute our
precious
national heritage
and contribute to our cultural diversity in a global world. These attributes,
that
is, the status we
give, the recognition we give to languages in general, but, in particular,
the
Asian languages
which are the subject of the debate, contribute to our cultural diversity in
a
global environment.
Today, internationally, it is recognised that a country which
promotes
diversity is a
country which is equipped to face the challenges of a new international
economic
order. I think my
good friend had a long term view of where we should start and where
we
should go. In fact,
I must put it to the House that my good friend and I had the opportunity
to
work on the
Commission of Education for the Labour Party and that’s why we are thinking
of
what would be the
longer term implications of strengthening the status of Asian languages.
So,
already, as we know,
bilingualism is recognised as an asset for Mauritius internationally.
We
have the project of
circular migration and it is working wonderfully well because one of
the
attributes is that
Mauritius is bilingual.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
languages are known to contribute towards our cultural, intellectual
and
also technological
status of countries. With your permission I would like to highlight why is
it
important to
strengthen and give better recognition to languages. Let me read an extract from
an
article by UNESCO,
“A pillar of cultural diversity”. –
“Languages with
their complex implications of identity, communication, social
integration,
education and development, are of strategic importance for people and
the
planet. Yet due to
globalisation processes, they are increasingly under threat of
disappearing
altogether. When languages fade, so does the world’s rich tapestry
of
cultural diversity.
Opportunities, traditions, memory, unique modes of thinking and
expression, valuable
resources for ensuring a better future are also lost.”
25
Similarly, I would
just like to quote Mr Matsuura, the Director-General of UNESCO
who had this to say
about languages –
“Languages are
indeed essential to the identity of groups and individuals and
to
the peaceful
coexistence. They constitute a strategic factor of progress
towards
sustainable
development and a harmonious relationship between the global and
the local
context.”
I think it makes the
point that it is very important that we do strengthen the status of
Asian languages
because it is a plus for the country and for its people.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
this is why there is a global movement for the promotion and
protection
of diversity for
cultural expressions. The Protection and Promotion of the Diversity of
Cultural
Expressions 2005 of
the UNESCO points in this direction because we are, in fact, in front of
a
big challenge and it
is estimated that 50% of the 7000 languages spoken in the world may
disappear if they
are not strengthened, if appropriate steps and policies are not advocated
to
strengthen the
languages. That is why….
Mr
Speaker: Can you move out of
the House if you want to speak!
Mr
Gokhool: Mr Speaker, Sir,
that is why recognising and raising the status of Asian
languages and all
other languages for that matter is an opportunity to enrich humanity and
the
civilisations and
this motion is a step in the right direction. Let me also underline, Mr
Speaker,
Sir, the
contemporary situation that is arising in our society. We know that there is a
lively
debate about the
place of Creole, but I may add, why Creole? We have Bhojpuri, we
have
Sanskrit and these
are languages which have to be promoted. So, it is not an either/or, and
I
would invite those
people who want to promote Creole language not to look only in one
direction
because we can all
benefit from the promotion of Bhojpuri, Sanskrit and Creole. That is why
I
think that
Government is right to move cautiously. We should not give in to certain
pressure
groups, it is not a
matter of pressure, but it is a matter of national importance and that is what
we
should
do.
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
second point that I would like to elaborate on is if we believe that
the
status of the
languages should be strengthened and MES should join in, what kind
of
collaboration there
should be? Here also we have to tread carefully although I believe that
we
should not leave it
to MES alone because there should be the partnership between the MES
and
those examining
bodies whether from India, Pakistan and other parts of the world which
have
26
been collaborating
in the holding of examinations of Asian languages. So, we must
therefore
build on what has
already been achieved. As a start, I think that I will agree with hon.
Guttee
who proposed that
the Ministry of my colleague hon. Dr. Vasant Bunwaree could consider
the
possibility of
convening a roundtable of all stakeholders. Let all the stakeholders come and
share
their views on this
issue and the modalities of the kind of collaboration. I think that the scope
and
the nature of the
collaboration have to be thrashed out. We should move step by step because
this
is an issue which
will have long term implications, so we should not rush into it, but go step
by
step. In fact we can
note that there is a lot of interest and this is a good thing for the
country.
There are two ways
of looking at it when there is a debate on languages – one is looking at
it
from a very narrow
perspective, but the other is a broader and larger prospective of what can
this
debate bring towards
national development for every child in this country, not only a
particular
section. We should
look beyond these arguments. We should adopt a vision and we should
adopt
strategies, but not
look at the short term considerations. I think that we should look far
beyond
that.
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
right language policies as well as the accompanying measures for the
preservation and
promotion of Asian languages and for that matter any other language need to
be
evolved in a
consensual manner. That is why this motion is a wonderful opportunity and I
am
very happy that my
colleague hon. Suren Dayal, Chief Whip of Government, has brought
this
motion to give us an
opportunity to reflect on this very important issue, not only because of
its
importance to our
cultural diversity, but also for the future development of
Mauritius.
With these words, Mr
Speaker, Sir, I thank you for your attention.
At 4.26 p.m. the
sitting was suspended.
27
On resuming at 5.09
p.m. with the Deputy Speaker in the Chair.
(5.08
p.m)
Mrs B. Juggoo (First
Member for Port Louis North & Montagne Longue): Mr
Deputy Speaker, Sir,
first of all, I would like to congratulate my colleague, hon. Dayal,
for
bringing this motion
to this House.
The debate of today
is about the motion stands in the name of Hon. S. Dayal on the Order
Paper, namely that
this House is of the opinion that the Mauritius Examination
Syndicate
should conduct all
examinations concerning Asian Languages taught in extension schools.
We cannot just go to
the point of the examination without remembering the importance of
our ancestral
languages. For example, we take Hindi which is one of our ancestral
languages
that is commonly
taught in our extension schools and this is why hon. Dayal has brought in
this
motion. Hindi is, in
terms of politics, population and cultural tradition, one of the World’s
ten
leading
languages.
Hindi occupies a
prestigious place in Mauritius and it is the only country to have set up
a
World Hindi
Secretariat by an Act of Parliament for the global promotion of Hindi
language.
Mauritius had to
undergo a long struggle to give Hindi this respectable position.
When we think of
Asian languages, I think of my – we used to call it a village before
now
it is in the
vicinity of Port Louis, it is included in the Municipality of Port Louis, that’s
Vallée
des Prêtres. I was
at the age of five years old and I remember we come from Port Louis, a
place
where nobody speaks
Asian language. We used to hear Chinese a little bit next to the
Chinese
shop. We used to
hear “set fan, min pow,” and whatever, but then when we come to Vallée
des
Prêtres it was a
different tune and there was the echo of the mountain saying “tu kaha
hawé” –
Bhojpuri. And we
used to hear a lot of Hindi and Bhojpuri and I was that. Sanskrit was not
that
much, maybe in the
prayers in the temples, but it is also true when we think of languages in
the
terms of English and
German, the word ‘Hindi’ maybe used either as the name of the cluster
of
dialects or as the
name of a particular standard speech development out of one of the dialect
of
the
cluster.
28
Standard Hindi, in
Mauritius, when we say we speak Hindi, Hindu and Hindi are two
different things
classified. A Hindu can speak Marathi, Gujarati, Telugu, Tamil and Hindi
and
we are a small
little island – unfortunately for us or fortunately maybe – we are not like
India
with all States
where people can speak 101 Asian languages. Standard Hindi, as I was
saying,
which is always
written in the native Indian scripts has developed out of a western Hindi
dialect
called
“Khariboli”. Khariboli, after its parent dialect. When used with larger
number of words
or phrases borrowed
from the Persian or Arabic and is written in a modified form of the
Arabic
script it is known
as Urdu. When you say in creole – “pas prend tracas”. In English it is
“don’t
bother”. “Ne
t’inquiètes pas”. See the difference in Hindi “taklif mat karo” and
makes it in
urdu “takalluf
mat karo”. The difference between “taklif mat karo” and “takalluf
mat karo”,
when it comes these
romantic and so sweet languages and this is why hon. Dayal was
wondering
our young generation
should into the sense of getting to know their ancestral language, the
love
for culture, the
love for the languages and the love when you travel abroad how would that
help
you as an
individual.
You would see the
Indian labourers when we talked of our ancestral, when I said we
cannot come to the
examination when we haven’t spoken of the root itself. When our
ancestors,
the Indian
labourers, came to Mauritius, they came to work in the sugarcane fields as we
all
know, but we cannot
go without saying the difficulties they had, the struggles without a
“ouf”.
They preserved that
language for us, that culture and, of course, through their culture
and
language, their own
identity that is our identity. That time Higginsons, the British Governor
in
1957, came up with
the idea of teaching the Indians, our ancestors in their native language.
So,
in the absence of
formal education, they taught Hindi with great devotion in evening
schools
based in small huts.
This is what we used to call the “baitkas”.
The social life of
the Indian Immigrants central round the “baitkas” which was the
village
club. That time
there was no danger. The entertainment was – meeting in the
“baitkas”,
teaching the
language, the culture, singing with the “jhal dholak” in the Bhojpuri
songs and so
forth. The social
life, as I said, of the Indian Immigrants central around the “baitkas”. Later
on
Hindi was added to
the list of subjects taught in Government schools. Today, Hindi is
being
taught from primary
to tertiary levels. I will repeat, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Dayal’s
quote
from the statement
of Sir Sewoosagur Ramgoolam during the inaugural address of the
Second
29
World Hindi
Convention held in Mauritius on 29 August 1976 at the Mahatma Gandhi
Institute.
While we quote it we
should all remember –
“It is our belief,
Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, that languages of Mauritius are
preserved, it will
help preserved the essential cultural values of our different
communities. Through
the synthesis of these various cultures alone will be
created a united
culture of Mauritius in which we can all cooperate.”
Reminding us at the
same time, the usual saying of our father of the nation, Sir
Sewoosagur Ramgoolam
– do not touch language, culture and religion. Being able to speak
another language
makes us more cultured and seem more attractive. We live in the world
of
shrinking dimension.
Our society is incredibly mobile. Technology has also made
travelling
even more accessible
and affordable. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will remember when we
went
to India last year -
you were the leader of our delegation - when we met the Prime Minister
of
India when he came
towards us and I spoke in Hindi when he asked me – is it your first visit
to
India? I replied in
Hindi and said –“Mauritius, our humara chota bharat hum log até jaté
hein”.
He was so pleased to
hear and he spoke longer. Even when you go to China it is the same
thing.
The fact that you
know a little bit of these Asian languages makes it easy for you to be
accessible
and people would
accommodate you.
India and China are
becoming popular destinations for Mauritians. If we do not speak the
language or are not
being encouraged we are in and that’s commonly used worldwide getting
out
of the difficult
situation can be next to impossible because we cannot communicate with
those
who can help us.
Knowing Hindi, for instance will make it more enjoyable and meaningful,
to
communicate with the
local people, as I said we have an Indian delegation today, it was
very
easy to access
because of language. I would not only say Hindi, but even Mandarin –
Asian
language – is
already a UN language. It is also a matter of time that Hindi is also
acknowledged
as the medium of
communication in the UN. No one will be able to prevent this as India with
its
economic might,
young population and human resources march at rapid strides to become the
top
four economic
powers. We have a large section of the population who speak and
understand
Hindi as they are
used to other languages quite close, if not a substitute, to Hindi,
namely
Bhojpuri, Urdu,
Marathi, Bengali, Gujarati just to mention a few.
30
Surprisingly, Mr
Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a snag. The hitch is that even where
there
have been
independent initiatives to promote the language, there has been a reluctance
to
recognise the
ability of persons’ proficient in such languages. For instance, there is no
full
recognition for some
of the examinations held in Hindi by the MES or other competent
authorities when it
comes to recruitment for jobs or promotion, and I think this is why,
again,
hon. Dayal was
thoughtful to bring in this motion. A case in point is various Hindi
examinations, which
are not recognised by the MES, although the examination is held by
the
University of
Chandigarh. The reason apparent is that classes are held on Sundays and
the
examinations are
held on Sundays.
Multi-lingualism has
immense importance in the business world today, and we should not
be looking at our
language policy with a myopic eye. There are many career opportunities
for
people who can speak
more than one language. In spite of all, our socio-cultural bodies, a few
to
mention, the Arya
Sabha runs afternoon Hindi classes in more than 200 of its branches
where
400 teachers teach
Hindi to 18,000 students. It employs 18 part-time inspectors to
supervise
these schools, and
conducts yearly examinations.
Another example
again is the Hindi Pracharini Sabha. The Hindi Pracharini Sabha is
running Hindi
classes in 135 primary and 20 secondary institutions. 30 part-time inspectors,
Mr
Deputy Speaker, Sir,
have been recruited to supervise those Hindi classes.
The Mauritius Arya
Ravived Pracharini Sabha, since its very inception, is involved in
the
propagation of
Hindi, and appoints supervisors to inspect classes and conduct yearly exams;
of
course, without
forgetting the Tamil Temple Federation, the Marathi Federation, the Andra
Maha
Sabha, and the Urdu
Speaking Union. They all have put in the effort to try and see that
languages and
culture combined together are kept alive, and that’s what makes a nation.
There
are many to mention,
but there are just few examples, and these organisations have acted as
nonexisting
Baitkas, as we
mentioned previously, in our villages, and our youth are kept away
from
alcohol, drugs,
prostitution, and all these issues.
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Sir, we should consider the motion brought in by hon. Dayal, as this
will take us a long
way in doing justice.
31
To all these
extension schools and all other institutions, which played a crucial role
in
preserving our
ancestral languages, these organisations are matured enough to collaborate
with
the MES, and they
can share their expertise and also give support of their experience to the
MES
for the future of
Asian languages. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, this will also allow more
youngsters
to learn more
languages and benefit from a recognised certificate, which will open more
avenues
for our young
generation.
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Sir, I wish to reinforce the issue of the motion of hon. Dayal to
the
effect that steps be
taken by the relevant competent authorities, after a due diligence exercise,
to
make arrangement to
recognise examinations that promote Asian languages, and
specifically
Hindi. As one
national institute, all can collaborate to inspect, supervise and conduct
exams
jointly.
Thank you, Mr Deputy
Speaker, Sir.
(5.25
p.m.)
Mr C. Sayed-Hossen
(Fourth Member for Montagne Blanche & GRSE): M. le
président, je
souhaite commencer par remercier et féliciter mon ami et collègue,
l’honorable
Suren Dayal, pour
l’introduction de cette motion à l’Assemblée nationale.
Cette motion est au
sujet du Mauritius Examinations Syndicate et des examens
prescrits
par les différentes
institutions non-gouvernementales, non-MES, qui sanctionnent des études
de
langues orientales
dans ce que nous appelons couramment les extension schools. Cette
motion
est, en apparence du
moins, technique, en apparence administrative et en apparence
bureaucratique. Mais
comme on dit généralement, M. le president, there is more to it than
meets
the eye. Indeed,
this is a very, very important motion, because it has to do with languages
of
origin – not all
languages of origin of Mauritius, but most of them actually. It has to do
with
culture, it has to
do with what the French call very beautifully la mémoire et,
encore mieux, la
mémoire collective,
M. le president. It has to do with identity; it has to do with several
aspects
of identity,
existing identity: inherited identity and, secondly, identity in
development. Encore
une
fois, ce que nous
appelons en français, l’identité en devenir, parce que nous savons tous
que
l’identité, que ce
soit l’identité individuelle, l’identité de groupe, l’identité nationale, n’est
pas
quelque chose de
figé, n’est pas statique, n’est pas tout simplement quantifiable. C’est pour
ces
32
raisons que cette
motion est importante, et que la notion des origines est importante. Ce
serait
tout à fait injuste,
M. le président, de débattre de cette motion du point de vue
simplement
technique, sans
prendre en considération et sans évoquer en détail même, je dirai, la
dimension
culturelle, la
dimension d’identité dans les préoccupations qui, je suis sûr, ont animé
notre
collègue,
l’honorable Suren Dayal, quand il a proposé cette motion.
Nous avons la
chance, M. le président, de vivre dans un pays merveilleux, de faire
partie
d’une nation
merveilleuse. En fait, c’est un bonheur que de naître et que de vivre mauricien
dans
une île pareille, où
nous avons à peu près une dizaine de langues différentes dont nous
avons
héritées - certains
diraient de par les accidents de l’histoire, moi, je dirai de par notre histoire
tout
court ; des langues
en provenance de la vieille Europe, de la vielle Afrique, de la vieille
Asie.
Donc, la
configuration du settlement démographique mauricien a fait que nous avons
hérité de
cette très, très
grande diversité, et nous avons aujourd’hui une richesse probablement unique
au
monde, non seulement
d’héritage linguistique mais aussi de capacité linguistique. Nous
savons
aussi, M. le
président, que le langage ou la langue n’est pas simplement un concept
technique, un
outil de
communication, un outil de stockage de la connaissance, de mémoire et de
transmission
de la connaissance
et de mémoire. Peut-être plus important que tout cela, M. le président,
la
langue est un
vecteur de civilisation. Et c’est de cela qu’il s’agit principalement, à mon
avis, dans
cette motion.
Evidemment, le concept de civilisation, au moment où nous parlons au début
du
21ème siècle, a un
contenu tout à fait spécifique. Nous parlons de civilisation en 2010 de
manière
différente dont nous
aurions parlé de civilisation il y a 15 ans de cela, 50 ans de cela, un
siècle
ou deux, ou 500, ou
même deux millénaires de cela.
La société humaine,
le regroupement des hommes et des femmes a commencé
certainement avec
des civilisations familiales, claniques, d’où nous sommes passés à
la
civilisation tribale
qui a un contenu un peu plus large que le concept clanique. De là, a
émergé
une civilisation
régionale et ensuite une civilisation nationale à partir du moment où
ont
commencé à émerger
les Etats Nations. Pendant le 20ème siècle, nous avons vu le
développement,
l’émergence et l’épanouissement, on pourrait même dire d’une
civilisation
internationale,
principalement avec la généralisation de la langue anglaise et de la culture
anglosaxonne
et américaine à
travers le monde et le début du 21ème siècle voit l’émergence d’une
civilisation
globale, M. le président. Evidemment, la civilisation globale est différente de
la
civilisation
internationale et le concept de global nous amène au concept de globalisation.
La
33
globalisation est un
sujet dont nous avons ici et ailleurs beaucoup parlé. Donc, beaucoup de
gens
très bien informés
et d’autres moins bien informés, ont beaucoup débattu, ont analysé de long
en
large et nous savons
déjà maintenant que la globalisation a à faire avec l’économie, les
investissements, la
production des biens et des services, le commerce, la politique et
les
considérations
géostratégiques. Mais, il ne faut pas oublier que la globalisation a aussi
une
dimension très
importante qui est la dimension culturelle et civilisationnelle.
Il y a environ deux
ans de cela, l’UNESCO a publié un rapport très intéressant qui
commençait par
l’exposé des espèces en voie de disparition. Ces espèces étant
principalement
des espèces de flore
et de faune. Mais, ce qui était intéressant dans ce rapport, c’est
que
l’UNESCO parle aussi
de langues en voie de disparition. L’UNESCO a mentionné dans ce
rapport un certain
nombre de langues régionales, ancestrales et qui sont définitivement
civilisationnelles
et en voie de disparition. Et ceci pour des raisons très simples, M. le
président.
Premièrement, le
manque de logistique, l’absence de moyens pour la retransmission,
pour
la reproduction et
pour la continuation et la permanence de ces langues.
Deuxièmement, en
raison d’un processus comparable à la marche d’un rouleau
compresseur, qui est
le processus d’anglicisation du monde et de généralisation du modèle
culturel
linguistique et du modèle tout simplement de consommation de tout type
anglo-saxon et
américain.
Nous sommes tous à
Maurice, M. le président, des citoyens du monde et nous sommes
tous confortables
chez nous ; nous sommes à l’aise chez nous et nous sommes tous
confortables
et adaptables. En
Europe, nous avons beaucoup de nos concitoyens, ou de descendants de
nos
concitoyens, qui
sont aujourd’hui installés, totalement intégrés dans beaucoup de pays
européens
du sud de l’Europe,
l’Italie, l’Espagne jusqu’au nord de l’Europe, la Scandinavie, la Finlande
et
l’Islande.
Confortables, à l’aise et adaptables en Afrique, en Asie partant du Moyen Orient
pour
aller jusqu’à
l’Extrême Orient. Mais, il est clair que personne ne peut être un véritable
citoyen
du monde sans être
d’abord un citoyen de sa propre culture, de son propre milieu, d’où
l’importance dans la
motion de mon ami et collègue, l’honorable Suren Dayal, de la
reconnaissance
officielle - parce que c’est de cela qu’il s’agit – des examens et des
résultats
sanctionnant les
études des langues orientales dans les extension schools.
Evidemment, quand
nous parlons de reconnaissance officielle, cela ne remet pas du tout
en cause l’excellent
travail, le travail extraordinaire souvent dans des conditions difficiles
et
34
précaires de tous
ceux qui ont oeuvré depuis deux siècles et demi à l’enseignement et à
la
transmission des
langues orientales.
Avec votre
permission, M. le président, je voudrais citer quelques lignes de ce
qu’a
déclaré notre
regretté ami, frère et collègue, feu l’honorable Dr. James Burty David quand il
est
intervenu dans cette
Chambre le 12 décembre 2008 sur cette même motion. Et il parlait des
enseignants
bénévoles qui ont travaillé très souvent dans l’obscurité, très souvent inconnus
du
grand public, très
souvent inconnus de ce qu’on appelle l’officialdom, très souvent
sans
récompense, très
souvent sans compensation et qui ont gardé vivant cette flamme des
langues
orientales et
ancestrales. Et je cite feu l’honorable Dr. Burty David qui disait -
« Qu’est-ce qu’ils
avaient ces enseignants dans les baitkas et dans les
madrassas
?
Ils n’avaient que l’amour de la culture, ils n’avaient aucune
formation
universitaire mais ils transmettaient. Si j’entends encore les enfants
et
ceux de notre
génération parler Hindi, Tamil, Telugu, Marathi, Urdu et toutes les
langues orientales,
c’est grâce à ceux qui malgré les difficultés ont su transmettre
ces langues. Ils ont
sacrifié leur temps, ils ont sacrifié leur énergie pour que
soient enseignées
les langues orientales. »
Je crois qu’il n’y a
pas de meilleur hommage qui puisse être rendu à ces glorieux
prédécesseurs qui
ont très souvent oeuvré dans l’obscurité la plus totale. Et la demande pour
la
reconnaissance
officielle ne remet pas du tout en cause, comme je viens de le dire, le
travail
titanesque, abattu
dans des conditions difficiles par ces prédécesseurs.
Si j’ai bien compris
la motion de mon ami, l’honorable Suren Dayal, ce que nous
demandons c’est la
standardisation pour que nous puissions atteindre la reconnaissance
officielle,
la standardisation
des contenus, la standardisation de ce qu’on appelle plus techniquement
les
syllabus et les
examens. La reconnaissance officielle par le biais du passage à travers
un
organisme central et
officiel, des certificats, diplômes et autres qui sanctionnent ces
examens.
Ayant écouté mes
collègues des trois côtés de la Chambre qui sont intervenus sur cette motion,
je
n’ai pas
l’impression qu’il y a beaucoup de dissension; j’ai l’impression même qu’il y a
un
consensus
relativement généralisé sur la nécessité de faire quelque chose dans ce sens, et
ce qui
m’amène à quelques
commentaires d’ordre un peu plus technique.
35
Premièrement, je
voudrais mettre en exergue, si c’est nécessaire, le sérieux, la
connaissance des
questions en présence et l’engagement vers la crédibilité de notre
collègue,
l’honorable Surendra
Dayal quand il a changé le libellé de sa motion de le MES to
collaborate
with existing
institutions to conduct examinations. Evidemment cela
montre une connaissance
parfaite et profonde
de la question, une connaissance parfaite et profonde de
l’environnement
dans lequel nous
évoluons et évidemment des capacités relatives du Mauritius
Examinations
Syndicate.
Le deuxième point,
M. le président, qui est un point très important et qui est un point
très
souvent soulevé – je
suis sûr que la plupart des membres de chaque côté de la Chambre ont
dû
faire face, ont dû
écouter ce genre de doléance. Cette doléance c’est le fameux ratio 1:25.
Très
souvent, des
représentants des institutions d’enseignement de Tamil, de Telugu, de Marathi
et
d’Urdu et même des
représentants des institutions enseignant le Hindi pour les classes
supérieures - je
veux dire higher grades of Hindi. Très souvent, ces représentants on mis
en
exergue les très
grandes difficultés auxquelles font face ces institutions, ces extensions
schools
pour pouvoir arriver
à trouver 25 étudiants, 25 élèves dans une classe spécifique. Si j’ai
bien
compris, pour que
l’enseignant qui enseigne dans une classe spécifique pour les
langues
orientales, soit
rémunéré selon les termes, selon la réglementation du ministère, il faut qu’il y
ait
un minimum de 25
étudiants dans cette classe.
M. le président, je
fais un appel particulièrement au ministre de l’éducation, et je suis
sûr
que le ministre de
l’éducation a dû aussi entendre ce genre de doléance à travers tout le pays,
que
ce soit dans les
régions urbaines ou dans les régions rurales, de la très grande difficulté
de
trouver pour des
classes spécifiques, pour surtout le Tamil, le Telugu, le Marathi et l’Urdu
et
aussi pour le Hindi
dans les classes plus élevées de trouver 25 étudiants. Nous savons très
bien,
M. le président, que
pour pouvoir répondre à ce genre de doléance, pour pouvoir dire
effectivement nous
allons diminuer ce ratio de 25:10, 25:12 ou 25:15 quelque soit le chiffre
qui
soit déterminé, nous
savons très bien qu’il y a des contraintes. Il y a des contraintes de
capacité
donc de
disponibilité d’enseignant, donc des contraintes de ressources humaines, il y a
des
contraintes
d’infrastructures, il y des contraintes de logistiques et il y a aussi des
contraintes
financières. Mais M.
le président ou on veut ou on ne veut pas.
(Interruptions)
36
M. le président, ou
on veut véritablement promouvoir les langues ancestrales et les
langues orientales
non seulement pour des raisons culturelles non seulement pour des
raisons
civilisationnelles, mais aussi pour des
raisons purement économiques parce que dans le monde,
dans l’homo
economicus d’aujourd’hui se retrouve évidemment, automatiquement, avec un
très
grand avantage s’il
maîtrise plusieurs langues et autant de langues qu’il puisse maîtriser
autant
cela vaut mieux pour
lui. Donc mon appel à mon ami, l’honorable ministre de l’éducation
c’est
de revoir, dans les
limites des possibilités, ce ratio de 1:25 pour que nous puissions voir,
nous
puissions témoigner
d’un véritable épanouissement de l’enseignement des langues
ancestrales.
Le troisième point
technique concerne carrément le libellé de la motion qui est -
« This House is of
the opinion that the Mauritius Examinations Syndicate should
collaborate with the
existing recognised institutions in conducting all
examinations
concerning asian languages taught in extension schools.”
My comments, Mr
Deputy Speaker, Sir, have to do with the term ‘collaborate’.
‘Collaborate’ can be
given a very narrow meaning; ‘collaborate’ can be given a very broad
meaning and, of
course, it all depends what we mean, what we understand and what we
expect
by such
collaboration. I suppose being given that if we go by the French adage “qu’on
fait ce
qu’on
peut” that the capacity
availabilities of the Mauritius Examinations Syndicate have to be
taken into
consideration before such an issue be addressed. But then once we have assessed
the
availabilities in
terms of capacity of the Mauritius Examinations Syndicate, we only have
two
options, Mr Deputy
Speaker, Sir. We can either say that we have a limited capacity and we
will
stay put, that is,
we will direct our action; we will orient our action relatively to our capacity.
So,
we adapt. Or we can
say we enhance this capacity because we believe in the promotion of
Asian
languages, we
believe in giving official recognition to the examinations which sanction the
study
of Asian languages.
We believe that it is important to give a national, an official credibility
to
these certificates,
diplomas and degrees and we believe that it is only fair, ce n’est que
justice
que ces examens
portant sur les études, sur les langues orientales soient sanctionnés par
des
diplômes qui ont une
reconnaissance officielle, et qui dit officiel dit aussi
international.
37
At the end of the
day, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the question is: what do we want? Do we
want simply to adapt
our action taking into consideration our limited capacity or do we want
to
really achieve the
objective that we have set? Generally, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir,
philosophers
and would-be
philosophers also make a difference between success in life, that is, having a
good
job, getting a
decent salary, getting the material, physical trappings of economic success in
life
on one hand and
living very simply a successful life. And we all know that the Alliance
Sociale
Government of the
hon. Dr. Navinchandra Ramgoolam, Prime Minister has set as one of its
main
objectives to
enhance equality and to bring social justice to this country. And if we go by
the
definition of that
author, Economist, Nobel Prize winner whom the hon. Prime Minister
has
quoted a number of
times, Dr. Amartya Sen. Dr. Amartya Sen defines equality and social
justice
as being the
capacity of every individual to lead a life of his or her own choice. Dr.
Amartya Sen
defines equality and
social justice as being the capacity of every individual to lead a life of his
or
her own choice and
this is what, I suppose, was one of the preoccupations. This is, I suppose,
one
of the motivations
of my brother and colleague, hon. Suren Dayal, in presenting this motion
to
the
House.
Having said this, I
wish to make an appeal to the Minister of Education to consider with
sympathy this
motion. Actually, indeed, more than sympathy parce que la sympathie est
quelque
chose de
volontariste. On décide si on veut ou non être en sympathie avec quelque
chose. But
this is a matter of
necessity, it is not a matter of choice parce que, comme nous le savons et,
si je
me souviens bien, je
crois que c’est mon ami, l’honorable Dr. Vasant Bunwaree, le ministre
de
l’éducation, qui un
jour m’a dit, au cours d’une conversation, ‘mais tu sais très bien
que
l’homme ne vit pas
que de pain’. I would like to
return that quotation to my hon. friend -
l’homme ne vit pas
que de pain and, therefore, my
appeal is for a gesture, for a move, for an
effort, a simple
gesture in the direction of the overall appeal that my friend and colleague,
hon.
Suren Dayal, has
made to this motion. As we all know a simple gesture, a small gesture can
be
very
important.
I would like to
terminate my intervention, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, just on that issue of
a
small gesture –
un petit signe as we say in urdu – samaj dalon kelie ichara kafié
hai. For those
who understand a
simple signal is sufficient.
Thank you, Mr Deputy
Speaker, Sir.
38
(5.52
p.m.)
The Minister of
Consumer Protection and Citizens Charter (Mr S. Tang Wah
Hing): M. le président,
d’emblée, je dois vous remercier de m’avoir permis aujourd’hui
d’apporter ma pierre
à l’édifice et, en même temps, de féliciter mon ami l’honorable
Suren
Dayal pour sa motion
sur les langues orientales.
Certes c’est un
sujet qui a toujours fait débat et qui fera toujours débat surtout quand
on
sait que nous vivons
dans un pays arc-en-ciel tout en prenant en considération ce que
nous
devons non seulement
préserver mais en même temps nourrir nos langues ancestrales, car
c’est
un héritage légitime
qui nous a été légué par nos aînés.
M. le président,
avant de rentrer dans le vif du sujet, un bref retour dans
l’histoire
s’impose. Nos aînés
ont eu à faire un choix pour une meilleure vie quand ils ont pris la
décision
de venir à Maurice.
Délaissant famille, proche, leur pays entre autres, ils se sont embarqués
pour
une aventure en
espérant trouver l’herbe plus verte ici. Et ils se sont vite rendus compte que
ce
n’était pas une
partie de plaisir car ils ont dû bosser dur, très dur même, cela sans leur
famille et
leur proche pour les
soutenir. Graduellement, ils ont pu s’adapter à la situation tout en se
faisant
de nouveaux
amis.
A l’instar des
chinois, il y a ceux qui venaient de Guangdong et d’autres de Mei
Xian
plus connu comme Moi
Yen et aussi comme les Cantonnais et les Hakkas respectivement.
Comme vous le savez
tous, ils se sont lancés dans les magasins d’alimentation connus comme
les
boutiques pour
approvisionner les laboureurs indiens à l’époque. Les chinois ont dû
apprendre
sur le tas la langue
créole et le bhojpuri pour pouvoir communiquer avec leurs clients. Je
suis
moi même témoin de
cela car mon papa est un commis à la campagne, il parlait couramment
le
bhojpuri. Il peut
facilement tenir des conversations comme il le veut. Alors tout cela
démontre,
et c’est ce qui est
vraiment important à Maurice, ce mélange de cultures.
39
Au fil des ans,
certains ont fait venir leur femme et enfants alors que d’autres se
sont
mariés à Maurice.
Les chinois continuent à parler chez eux leurs langues ancestrales. Ainsi
par
coutume et par
tradition, la langue ancestrale a pu être préservée et les enfants ont également
été
envoyés dans des
écoles comme le Chinese Middle School pour apprendre le Hakka,
le
Cantonnais et le
Mandarin.
M. le président,
avec l’introduction de l’éducation gratuite, grâce à la vision du père
de
la nation que la
population mauricienne ne finira jamais de le remercier, Maurice
s’est
embarquée dans une
ère nouvelle. Car l’éducation gratuite vient de mettre sur le même
pied
d’égalité tous les
enfants. Forcément, il ne faut pas être riche pour aller à l’école et avoir
une
éducation. Les
pauvres aussi jouissent de ce privilège. C’est ainsi, qu’ultérieurement les
élèves
ont pu continuer à
étudier à l’école et au collège les langues ancestrales tout en prenant part
aux
examens du School
Certificate et du Higher School Certificate.
L’éducation, M. le
président, est un passeport pour la vie qui nous ouvre les
frontières.
Tout en étant
reconnaissant aux institutions qui ont enseigné aux enfants les langues
ancestrales
durant des années et
ce jusqu’à ce jour Maurice doit être fier qu’il y avait toujours des
volontaires pour
guider nos enfants à préserver leurs cultures.
Ces volontaires
méritent d’être salués car ils ont joué un rôle important voir
primordial
dans notre société.
Je profite pour leur rendre hommage pour leur contribution dans
l’éducation
de nos enfants
surtout ceux qui ont été derrière les rideaux, mais qui ont abattu un
travail
formidable.
M. le président, il
faut évoluer avec le temps. Si je puis me permettre, je pense que
c’est
ici la démarche de
l’honorable Suren Dayal qui pense qu’il est grand temps que la
Mauritius
Examinations
Syndicate (MES) soit mis à
contribution to collaborate with the existing
recognised
institutions in conducting all examinations concerning Asian languages taught
in
extension
schools.
40
M. le président, la
réputation de la MES n’est plus à faire. C’est une institution qui,
par
définition, s’occupe
des examens. D’ailleurs, c’est une référence sur le plan national, régional
et
international.
L’instance de Réduit travaille en étroite collaboration avec plusieurs
universités
dans le monde
entier. Je dois ici ouvrir une parenthèse pour dire que certains parents, dans
le but
de perfectionner
leurs enfants, n’hésitent pas à les envoyer en Chine pour six mois ou même
un
an pour revenir avec
un diplôme en mandarin. Un ami à moi a envoyé son fils en Chine pour
apprendre le
mandarin. Avec son diplôme en poche, l’enfant s’est ensuite rendu en
Angleterre
pour poursuivre ses
études tertiaires. Tout ceci c’est pour vous dire que cet enfant, après
ses
études tertiaires,
aura certainement un grand plus sur les autres car il possède déjà un
diplôme
reconnu en
langues.
M. le président,
avec la globalisation, il est désormais un plus de connaître des
langues
ancestrales. Cela
permet de gagner sa vie. Ici, je fais référence aux secteurs
touristiques,
financiers entre
autres. Avec un diplôme reconnu en poche, c’est un passeport, l’avenir
est
assuré. C’est la
raison pour laquelle qu’il serait souhaitable d’harmoniser et de permettre au
MES
de jouer ce rôle
catalyseur afin que nos enfants aient le passeport universel.
Néanmoins, je ne
suis pas en train de dire qu’il faut faire l’impasse ou encore moins
négliger ces
extension schools. Loin de là. Il faudra la collaboration de tout un
chacun pour
dégager un consensus
afin que nos enfants puissent sortir gagnants. Pour moi, ce qui est
important pour notre
île Maurice arc-en-ciel, c’est de voir dans toutes les couches de la
population cette
chose normale de leurs vies qu’ils veulent comme l’honorable Suren Dayal
l’a
dit ni hao,
c'est-à-dire qu’il voulait exprimer en chinois. En tant qu’homme politique,
quand je
vais dans des
réunions, j’essaie de parler en bhojpuri et en urdu pour exprimer cette
valeur
ancestrale que nous
avons pu obtenir de nos ancêtres. Mon ami me demande de parler en
bhojpuri, kaiser
ba, acha pas na, thik ba na, ce sont des mots qu’on connait.
(Interruptions)
Tout cela pour
démontrer que notre île Maurice a sa valeur d’être, c'est-à-dire cette
valeur
arc-en-ciel.
41
Pour terminer, M. le
président, je tiens à dire que c’est en nous réunissant que nous
aurons plus de
force. D’ailleurs, nous sommes tous dans le même bateau et nous voulons
tous
que nos enfants
aient un meilleur avenir pour faire face aux nombreux défis.
Merci M. le
président.
(6.00
p.m)
Mr R. Issack (Second
Member for Port Louis South & Port Louis Central): M. le
président, tout
d’abord je voudrais remercier l’honorable Suren Dayal pour cette motion qui
nous
permet d’avoir un
débat sain et national. Nous qui sommes là, sommes tous des mauriciens et
en
chacun de nous, il y
a tout un mélange de cultures. Il y a une interrelation qui fait honneur à
la
nation mauricienne à
cause de cette pluralité qui habite chacun de nous.
Aujourd’hui c’est un
jour spécial au parlement qui se tient d’ailleurs un lundi. Nous
avons reçu la visite
de nombreuses personnalités indiennes et nous savons ce que
représente
l’Inde avec ses
langues, ses cultures et ses traditions. Nous avons aussi parmi nous le
président
du Mauritius
Marathi Mandali Federation, M. Balraj Narroo. Il y a des présidents et
membres
d’autres sociétés
qui auraient tellement souhaité que la motion de l’honorable Suren Dayal
soit
adoptée. Il y a à
peine une dizaine de jours de cela, M. le président, vous étiez vous-même
en
Inde. On a assisté
avec le ministre de l’éducation et l’honorable Anil Bachoo à une rencontre
de
la diaspora
indienne, people of indian origin. Fait intéressant est que le président
de Gopio
International, notre compatriote,
M. Mahendra Utchanah avait fait une remarque anecdotique
mais pertinente. Il
a rappelé comment quelques années de cela, quand le premier ministre
Indien
d’alors M. Gowda
était en visite à Maurice, il avait voulu assister à une fête culturelle.
Après
avoir assisté à la
fête, il n’a pas caché sa stupéfaction car il avait dit ce jour là au ministre
d’alors
M. Utchanah que même
en Inde on n’a pas su préserver l’authenticité de cette langue
ancestrale.
Je crois que c’était
le Telugu. Il avait tellement apprécié et il était tellement agréablement
surpris
qu’il nous a fait
une fleur. C’est pour dire combien l’île Maurice a préservé plusieurs
langues,
cultures et
traditions. Alors la motion présentée par l’honorable Suren Dayal, comme l’a
souligné
il y a quelques
instants de cela notre ami l’honorable Cader Sayed-Hossen, a son lot
de
technicités, mais
aussi cette motion a son aspect culturel et son lot d’émotions.
42
A Maurice il y a
plusieurs langues et plusieurs communautés. Les langues ancestrales
asiatiques comme
l’Hindi, l’Urdu, le Telugu, le Tamoul, le Mandarin de même que le
Marathi,
j’espère que je n’ai
raté aucune autre langue. Il y a plusieurs langues qui fleurissent sur notre
sol.
(Interruptions)
J’ai dit le
Telugu.
Vous voyez la
réaction ! Dès que vous ratez ou qu’on croit que vous avez raté, on
réagit
parce qu’on est
tellement attaché aux langues de nos ancêtres. Il y a d’autres langues
encore
comme le
Gujrati.
Alors qu’est qu’il
nous faut ? Il nous faut préserver et un moyen de le faire c’est à
travers
les études. On
apprend et on préserve l’authenticité. Qui dit études dit aussi examens.
Quand
vous valorisez une
langue à travers un diplôme certainement il y aura beaucoup qui vont
s’intéresser à ces
langues. Si au niveau de la Higher School Certificate il y a des
lauréats
musulmans qui ont
pris l’Hindi au niveau principal de même qu’il y a des hindous qui ont
pris
des études
islamiques au niveau principal, demain il se peut que chacun étudie non pas la
langue
des autres mais les
langues des autres. Tout dépend de ce que nous voulons et de ce que
nous
allons décider et
faire.
Jetons un coup
d’oeil ailleurs. Que se passe-t-il à l’étranger ? Que se passe-t-il avec
les
langues ? Que
faisons-nous avec nos langues ? A l’école, dans les collèges, partout on
privilégie
les langues
ancestrales. On accorde une importance particulière à toutes les langues
ancestrales
dans ce pays. Tandis
que dans certains pays on perd les valeurs, si on essaye de comprendre
ce
qui se passe à
Guadeloupe par exemple, ou ce qui se passe au Fiji ou encore qu’on
essaye
d’analyser ce qui se
passe au Sri Lanka où à un certain moment il y avait une
‘détamoulisation’,
estimons nous
heureux ici d’avoir la possibilité non pas de parler et d’étudier mais de
vivre
plusieurs langues à
la fois. Donc, M. le président, ici il y a une prise de conscience. Même
en
Angleterre il y a
cette prise de conscience, ce revival et on met l’accent sur les langues
de nos
ancêtres parce que
ces langues sont aussi les langues des livres sacrés.
L’Inde ! Que
représente l’Inde pour nous? La Chine, avec toutes ses cultures, toutes
ses
traditions, toutes
ces magies, ces féeries. Nous avons hérité de tout cela ici. Une petite île qui
est
devenue finalement
un microcosme du monde. Notre ami, l’honorable Cader Sayed Hossen,
disait « toutes ces
langues représentent pour nous un patrimoine. C’est la mémoire ». Une
langue
est en elle-même
l’histoire. Chaque langue a une histoire, chaque langue représente une
culture,
43
des traditions, une
manière de vivre, une manière d’être, et une manière de prier. La langue
c’est
également la foi.
Evidemment, c’est aussi l’identité. La langue c’est l’histoire ; la langue c’est
la
sagesse.
C’est avec beaucoup
de nostalgie que j’ai écouté mon ami, l’honorable Cader Sayed
Hossen, quand il
citait l’honorable James Burty David, notre ami et frère disparu. Il avait
ici
même dans cette
Chambre parlé des premiers laboureurs, ceux qui avaient foulé pour la
première
fois notre sol,
qu’ils soient de Chine, de l’Inde ou de n’importe quel district de l’Inde.
Comment
sont ils venus ? Qui
étaient-ils ? Des laboureurs, des gens qui n’ont jamais été à l’école, mais
qui
nous ont donné la
meilleure de toutes les éducations. C’est gens-là ont su préserver les
livres
sacrés, nos langues
et nos cultures. Ils ont été des professeurs anonymes ; ils travaillaient
de
manière discrète.
N’oublions pas qu’à cette époque il n’y avait presque pas de lumière ;
on
travaillait, on
apprenait à la lueur des lampes à pétrole ; ti éna la bougie.
Ces gens-là ont su
préserver nos langues, traditions et cultures. Ils nous ont appris à
apprendre. Si eux, à
l’époque, vu leur niveau, leur intellectualité, ont pu faire progresser
leurs
enfants, ont pu leur
inculquer tous ce savoir, nous qui sommes éduqués, que ne
pouvons-nous
faire ? L’exemple
c’est eux. Qu’avaient ces gens comme outils pédagogiques ? Ils
n’avaient
qu’eux-mêmes, le
verbe, la parole, et on apprenait dans des huttes, des cases. Il y avait
des
muktabs, madrassahs,
des écoles chinoises, des baitkas. On essayait, avec des moyens de
bord,
d’ouvrir la porte du
savoir, de la sagesse aux enfants. Aujourd’hui que nous avons
l’occasion,
l’opportunité et des
opportunités, allons-nous cracher sur l’histoire, cracher sur la mémoire,
sur
le patrimoine ?
L’occasion est en or ; il faut la saisir, et il faut maintenant cristalliser ce
rêve de
nos ancêtres. Et il
n’est pas difficile de le faire. Ces gens-là avaient l’instinct de
préservation.
Mais, aujourd’hui,
nous avons - mon ami, l’honorable Suren Dayal, vient de me donner
des statistiques -
dans 414 écoles, 28,854 élèves qui étudient l’hindi, et nous avons pour
cela
1,063 professeurs.
Pour la langue Ourdou, dans 246 écoles, il y a 16,481 élèves et 611
professeurs ; pour
le tamil, 64 écoles, 138 professeurs, et 4,225 élèves ; pour le telegou, il y a
31
écoles, 36
professeurs, et 945 élèves ; pour le marathi, 22 écoles, 45 professeurs, 1,270
élèves et,
pour le mandarin,
six écoles, 19 professeurs, et 699 élèves. Que constatons-nous ? The
figures
are dwindling year
after year. Mais si jamais
nous maintenons le cap, si nous encourageons les
élèves, s’il y a des
certificats, des diplômes, le nombre évidemment va accroître. Dans le
monde
44
en ce moment, il y a
un manque aigu de traducteurs. Et nous, nous avons la possibilité non
pas
seulement d’être
bilingues mais multilingues.
Nous pouvons envoyer
uniquement des mauriciens travailler aux Nations Unies, dans de
grandes conférences
internationales, mais nous ne réalisons pas parfois ce que nous
possédons
comme trésor. Mais
là, il faut faire un appel directement au ministre de l’éducation. Il
faut
encourager. Il ne
faut pas se fier au ratio 25 élèves pour un professeur. Si on peut encourager
les
gens, donner plus de
chance. Pour ce qui est de la culture, la langue, l’histoire, les traditions,
la
religion, la foi,
tout cela n’a pas de prix. Payons ! Il faut dépenser. Augmentons, si besoin est,
le
salaire ou
l’allocation de ces professeurs. Il faut motiver. Nous avons aussi des
institutions à
Maurice ; le
Mauritius Examination Syndicate est une institution crédible qui a fait
ses preuves.
Si nous refaisons
confiance au MES et à toutes les autres institutions socioreligieuses,
ces
institutions qui ont
pris naissance avec l’arrivée des travailleurs et des commerçants
indiens,
chinois, nous
pouvons certainement réaliser des miracles. Il suffit que nous ayons confiance
en
nous, il suffit que
nous nous crédibilisons, il suffit que nous croyons en nous. A ce
moment-là,
nous allons
définitivement réussir dans notre tâche, dans notre missions Reste à
savoir
maintenant si le
ministre de l’éducation va bien vouloir nous aiguiller dans la bonne direction
et
cristalliser ce rêve
de nos ancêtres.
Merci, M. le
président.
The Deputy
Speaker: The Speaker will
now resume the Chair.
(6.20
p.m)
The Minister of
Education, Culture and Human Resources (Dr. V. Bunwaree): Mr
Speaker, Sir, we are
debating the Private Member’s Motion of hon. Surendra Dayal, the
Government Chief
Whip, which is entitled after amendment that the MES should
collaborate
with the existing
recognised institutions in conducting all examinations concerning
Asian
Languages.
Having listened,
until now, to the various orators on both sides of the House who
have
intervened on this
Motion, it is clear that there is, in fact, the willingness of trying to seek
the
expertise of the MES
in the conduct of the examinations for certain reasons. I wish, first of
all,
to thank the hon.
Member for the interest he has shown insofar as the teaching of
Asian
45
Languages in
Mauritius is concerned and I would also like to thank the various orators who
so
far have intervened
on this passionate subject at different sittings of the National
Assembly.
The hon. Chief Whip
came with the first Motion which he amended and I believed that
this amendment was a
well thought one. In fact, if we had - in the Motion – asked the MES
to
conduct the
examinations, it would have been absolutely different for various
reasons.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
asking the MES to collaborate with the existing recognised
institutions
in conducting the
examinations is something that is well thought of and, in fact, in one way
or
the other, we can
consider and try to make it become a reality after some procedures.
Mr Speaker, Sir, in
2009, the MES celebrated its 25 years of existence. It is an
institution
which has proved
itself, but there have been difficulties and crisis in the past and it has
overcome
the various hurdles
that were found on its way. I wish here to take this opportunity to
congratulate all
those Directors of the MES - I think there were five altogether - who have
been
doing a marvellous
work. In fact, this institution is today a very credible institution and is
also
an example in this
part of the world. There are many countries which are trying to send
their
representatives in
Mauritius to see in what way they can learn something from what the MES
has
been doing and is
still doing. The MES, in fact, conducts examinations in more than
one
hundred
fields.
Mr Speaker, Sir,
this subject of oriental languages touches all of us deeply and we
have
felt this in the
various speeches that were delivered in the House since we have started the
debate
on this Motion,
because it deals with our ancestral languages and our very culture, our
roots.
Just now, hon. Reza
Issack has very emotionally expressed this in his own way.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
must say that language is, in fact, the basis of culture. There is
no
culture if there is
no language. In fact, in the beginning when there were no languages,
when
people had first
come in the world, they must have been communicating through gestures
and
sign languages which
we use sometimes for those people who cannot hear well. It is only
after
language came into
existence that cultures could be expressed and could therefore
exist.
Mr Speaker, Sir, may
I take this opportunity again to thank all those people who are
involved de près
ou de loin with the promotion of languages and cultures in our
country.
I wish also to take
this opportunity to congratulate the President of the Marathi
Mandali
Federation who is in
the House today. This shows the importance that he gives to this
subject.
46
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
very fact that the matter is being discussed today in the National
Assembly is in a way
homage paid to those who have been contributing in the past, and still
in
the present, towards
the promotion of ancestral languages in Mauritius. I have no doubt that
the
hon. Chief Whip,
through his Motion, is concerned with improving the current system.
We know of his
attachment to the Oriental Languages and the work he has done so far
for
the promotion of
these languages. If he is coming with such a Motion it is because he would
like
to find in one way
or the other how we could improve the current system of examinations
that
are carried
out.
Before we look into
the examination aspects, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to invite the
House to reflect on
the common heritage that our ancestors have bequeathed to us and the
role
that languages have
played in the emancipation of the people and also for the development of
our
society. We need to
examine the system first, analyse its working before we think of
reviewing
the whole process.
In fact, we are not talking of reviewing the process, but in one way or
the
other this is at the
back of our mind. The languages like Hindi, Tamil, Telegu, Marathi and
Urdu
reached Mauritius in
the days of indenture. This is well known. They came at various times
and
when the indentured
labourers came, they came with their languages and also with their
sacred
books, the Ramayana,
the Mahabharata and the Koran and their languages. Those who were
from Tamil Nadu, now
Chennai, came which the Tamil Language. From Andra Pradesh, they
came with the Telegu
Language. From Maharashtra, they came with the Marathi Language;
those from the
Northern Indian States they came with their languages, Hindi and Urdu at
various
times, of course,
when they had to travel to Mauritius for the first time.
We know the
conditions in which they came to work. Of course, I won’t go into
the
details of the
story, but they were promised to turn the stones to find gold. We know that
the
conditions of work
in those days were very tedious and after a hard day’s work, they used to
read
their sacred books
and do the chanting following what was described in their books and that
was
essentially - as it
has been mentioned by hon. Mrs Juggoo – pou blié zot traca, pou blié zot
hard
day’s work.
These languages flourished little by little thanks to the baitkas and
madrassas that
were set up in those
days one after the other and also after sometimes as evening schools
mostly
in the rural
regions. That was one of the best ways for them to promulgate their languages
and
cultures and, at the
same time, allowing their languages to continue to live.
47
It must also be
recalled here, Mr Speaker, Sir, the arrival of Mahatma Gandhi in
Mauritius in 1901
which was a decisive step in the promotion of education, in general, for
the
indentured labourers
and we all know that he encouraged the Mauritians of Indian descent
essentially, the
Mauritians in general to educate their children, to start getting involved also
in
the affairs of the
country. This is what gave the leaders of those times the interest in
further
helping the oriental
languages to find their way. Soon after the visit of Mahatma Gandhi,
baitkas
and
madrassahs started mushrooming all over the island where languages like
Hindi and Urdu
began to be taught.
Through the medium of Hindi, students were also taught culture and
human
values. This is
continuing until today, Mr Speaker, Sir. It was the baitkas which laid
the
foundations of the
development of the society and side by side, on parallel lines, the
development of the
country itself.
I am informed that
the first printed book which arrived in Mauritius in 1903 was the
‘Satya Prakash’ of
Swami Dayanand. While trying to get some ideas to speak in this
Assembly
today, it was
brought to my attention that this was the first printed book which arrived
in
Mauritius in 1903.
The Arya Samaj movement started preaching its principles and the
medium
adopted, of course,
was Hindi. It is generally believed, Mr Speaker, Sir, that the very
first
manuscript which
accompanied the indentured labourers to Mauritius was, as I told you,
the
Ramcharitra Manas of
Goswami Tulsidas, but it was in the Awadhi dialect and lots of works
had
been done afterwards
to be able to allow this sacred book to be translated in other languages
and
allow the Mauritians
to learn what is in it.
The first half of
the 20th century turned out to be a glorious period for Asian
languages,
especially Hindi, I
must say. Soon, the children of labourers started scoring good results
in
general subjects
while, at the same time, studying ancestral languages and that was mostly in
the
baitkas. We have to salute
the Arya Samaj movement which definitely deserves our homage for
running Hindi
schools all over this island since 1910; that is a long way back. There must
have
been people of
vision…
(Interruptions)
Yes, in fact,
exactly a hundred years. It is to be noted also that the Mauritius
Sanathan
Dharma Temple
Federation too had baitkas in the country teaching Hindi and also Indian
culture
to the
children.
48
In 1935, Hindi was
already being taught part-time in 48 schools. The other oriental
languages, namely
Tamil and Urdu started entering the 48 schools. So, three oriental
languages
had already started
entering schools in 1935. The baitka, which came into being in the
early
decades of the 20th
century, went on to become a veritable institution which has well-endured
the
test of
time.
On various
occasions, we have been given the figures which reflect the state of health
of
that institution,
that is, the number of schools being run by the various institutions. The first
one,
as I said, is Arya
Samaj. The number of schools is more than 150, some people say it is
nearing
200. The Hindi
Pracharini Sabha runs 125 primary and 30 secondary branches, the
Arya
Ravived Pracharini
Sabha takes care of 35 branches in the country and, added to all this,
you
have various other
federations like the Tamil Temple Federation, the Marathi Mandali and
the
Andhra Maha Sabha
which continue to do the same type of work. In the afternoon, classes
are
being run to teach
the various languages to the children of these communities and Mandarin,
as
my colleague has
just been mentioning, is not left behind. The figures have already been given.
I
must say, Mr
Speaker, Sir, that in all zones of the country, we have a number of schools that
are
being run. The total
is 783. We have, for example, in zone 1: 237 schools; zone 2: 222
schools
for the various
oriental languages and Mandarin included; for zone 3: 223 and zone 4: 95.
The
teachers also follow
the same pattern and the pupils as well follow the same pattern.
All these show the
Government policy and that our main concern for the running of these
evening classes is
of great importance to the preservation of ancestral languages in our
country.
In this context, the
Ministry of Education, Culture and Human Resources, since 1976, had
agreed
to grant allowances
to the teachers who were involved in the promotion of the teaching of
these
languages, the
literature, the cultural activities and also in the practice of arts and
culture. These
activities are, as
we know, organised by various socio-cultural organisations, but the teachers –
I
think it is
worthwhile reminding the House – when they started in 1976, they were
getting
peanuts and that
amount had remained the same for many, many years. It was only when
our
present Prime
Minister became Prime Minister for the first time, that is, in 1996, I
remember
well because I was
Minister of Finance in those days and I took the initiative myself, it
was
under the first
Navinchandra Ramgoolam Government that we realised that they were
getting
peanuts; they
started with Rs300 and it had remained Rs300 until 1996. Then, we decided
to
49
give further
recognition to these teachers and the amount that was paid to them was modified.
In
the first instance,
it was brought from Rs300 to Rs500, that was a first gesture, knowing full
well
at that time,
because I was myself responsible, as I have just mentioned; for the work they
were
doing that was not
enough, but in a budget, we have to ‘couper trancher’ comme on dit. So,
that
is how it came, it
was raised from Rs300 to Rs500. But the year after and realising the
good
effect that it had
caused to the teachers of the country, then the year after, it was
significantly
increased from Rs500
to Rs1,000 for the general teachers for the lower classes and for those
who
were teaching
classes up to School Certificate, it was Rs1,500 and those teaching for
higher
levels it was
Rs2,000 per month, which was really significant. I must confess that that was
in
1998 and ten years
later it is still the same. I have just listened to Members of the House
making
their points. I
think there is some reason, here, to believe that this will have to be reviewed
in
one way or the
other. It cannot be done immediately, but we’ll seriously consider this. It is
not
only to encourage
these teachers to continue to do the same. But, at the same time, I must
also
say that there is a
system of monitoring, because there have been some abuses in certain cases.
It
is not because
allowance is given that it should go without notice. So, there have been, in
some
cases, certain types
of abuses where teachers have asked for remunerations, but where the
classes
were not being run
according to the conditions that have been spelt out. But to ensure
the
implementation of
this project, there are many stakeholders who are directly concerned.
There
are, first of all,
the Directors of the zones. I have said we have four zones and four
Directors,
and they keep an eye
on what is going on and how these evening classes are conducted.
There
are also other
stakeholders, such as the Principal School Inspectors, Desk Officers, Managers
and
President of the
Socio-Cultural Organisation. These are responsible people, and we draw
the
attention to the
fact that they have also to oversee what is happening in their organizations,
and
see to it that the
money that is spent to pay these teachers is used in a correct manner. And
there
are, of course,
teachers and pupils.
The point has been
made just now by one of my friends on this side of the House. I
think
hon. Cader
Sayed-Hossen said that there is a ratio of 1:25. For the school to qualify for
the
payment of a teacher
for an oriental language in evening classes, there should be one teacher
for
25 pupils. Then, the
class is accepted and can be run. When we come to students who are
studying for high
levels like B.A, for example, we may not find one class of 25
pupils.
Therefore, if the
conditions are applied strictly, the class is not going to be run and the
teachers
50
are not going to be
paid. But I must say to my colleague, hon. Cader Sayed-Hossen and,
therefore, inform
the House that there is some flexibility. We have already started to see to
it
that students are
not penalised because of that ratio. Before trying to change the ratio itself,
we
are trying to do the
best we can to see to it that students are not penalised because of the
ratio.
This is a good thing
that is happening. Teachers are running their classes, and they are
doing
their level best to
see to it that languages continue to be taught in all parts of the
country.
Mr Speaker, Sir, the
motion that is in front of us today gives us the opportunity to
repeat
something that we
should all know, that our history has witnessed the coming on the scene
of
some Hindi stalwarts
who devoted themselves heart and soul to the promotion of Hindi and
Indian culture. We
can go into details for the various oriental languages. We will find, in
all
cases, stalwarts
have been there at the right point in time and allowed their languages to walk
a
step forward. But in
the case of Hindi and Indian culture, I think it will be my duty to remind
the
House of the case of
the Bissoondoyal brothers who have gone down in history for initiating
a
nationwide movement,
to sensitise the people in their days to the need for promoting
ancestral
language and
culture. The country will ever stay indebted to them for launching the campaign
of
learning to sign.
That was a major step in our democratic process. In fact, they launched
the
campaign of learning
to sign one’s name in one’s ancestral language, which came to be
considered adequate
at that point in time to become basically eligible for voting at the
general
elections of 1947. I
think, Mr Speaker, you should be the one who knows that better than
anyone
else. And we are all
aware that these elections saw the returning of a significant number
of
candidates, whose
forebears were of Indian origin. This is why I wish to underline the work
that
has been undertaken
by the Bissoondoyal brothers, that is, launching the campaign to
make
people learn to sign
in their oriental language and, in so doing, being allowed to vote in
those
elections. This
change, Mr Speaker, Sir, in the configuration of the Members of the
Assembly
has already been a
determining factor in shaping the political history and the political destiny
of
Mauritius.
As we are all aware,
the coming on scene of Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam, Father of the
nation, was largely
instrumental in the promotion of Indian languages in Mauritius. It is
befitting
today to remind the
House and the country of this. Soon after the 1947 elections, under
the
impulsion of the
Father of the nation, Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam, Professor Ramprakash,
an
Indian expert, came
to Mauritius to arrange for the training of teachers. And we all know
today
51
that, in education,
if we want something to happen well, training is of utmost importance.
In
those days, there
could be no better way than getting an expert from India. Professor
Ramprakash, whom I
have known, in fact, for some time at the Royal College, Port Louis,
was
teaching Indian
culture, and I had the opportunity and the chance of learning from him.
That
expert came to
Mauritius to arrange for the training of teachers, and the first batch of
Hindi
teachers was trained
by him in 1951. The first batch of Hindi teachers came on the market.
We
had already a number
of teachers who had been trained and, Hindi, as a language, was taught
on
a full-time basis as
from 1954. For the first time, in 1963, it was examined at Primary
School
Leaving Certificate,
and mention of Hindi was made on the certificate. That was another
point
worthwhile
noting.
Since 1954, Hindi
could be studied in almost all primary and secondary schools. Today,
it can be studied
also, as we know, at tertiary level. Not only Hindi, even some other
subjects,
but for Hindi, it
was since 1954. Indeed, Hindi occupies a proud place in the universal
education
system of our
country. Degree and PhD courses are run at the MGI and also at the University
of
Mauritius. Some
5,000 students study Hindi at School Certificate level and 400 students
at
Higher School
Certificate level. This is for Hindi. I can give the figures for all the other
oriental
languages, and I can
assure the House that, in all schools, all the oriental languages are
being
taught.
In fact, it is also
important for me to mention that we have been having some criticisms
in
the education sector
to the effect that, in some schools, because the number of children who
opt
for oriental
languages is too small, less than 10, for example, there is no teacher, because
one
teacher is offered
for more than 10 students. So, when the number is less than 10, the
oriental
language cannot be
taught. We have innovated this year, and we are trying to put an order in
this
state of affairs. We
are clustering the schools in such a way that when we add up the
children
doing the same
oriental language in three, four or five schools, we reach a significant number
for
the teacher to teach
the subject. And, therefore, the schools will offer transport to allow
the
children to move
from one school to the other, follow the classes and come back to their
schools
through the
transport that is being offered to them. In that way, this difficulty for
children not to
study their oriental
language because the number in their schools is not sufficient is no longer
a
problem.
52
This clustering of
schools is starting this year. In fact, there is already the possibility
for
teachers to work
part-time in one school and part-time in another school. This practice has
been
there for quite some
time and we are continuing with it but, apart from that, we have moved
to
the clustering of
schools and offering transportation facilities to students to move from
one
school to the other
and timetables are arranged in such a way that students can continue in
that
way.
Mr Speaker, Sir, a
significant number of Mauritians are serving the country and
contributing towards
its development today thanks to the oriental languages that they
have
studied. Mr Speaker,
Sir, it is noteworthy to know that, in 1975, Sir Seewoosagur
Ramgoolam
was the chief guest
at the First World Hindi Conference held in Nagpur, India. And then, on
the
proposal of Sir
Seewoosagur Ramgoolam – it is good for the House to know – the
Second
Conference was held
in Mauritius the following year. And, in 1993, the Fourth World
Hindi
Conference was again
held in Mauritius. It is, indeed, a rare honour and privilege that the
World
Hindi Secretariat
stands today on the Mauritian soil. We know that the World Hindi Secretariat
is
being run from
Mauritius. Mauritius is, therefore, as the Hindi capital of the world, striving
to
give Hindi its
rightful place among the languages on the international field, that is even at
the
United Nations. We
are fighting to get Hindi recognised as a language at the UN.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I
have half an hour more to go. I wish to propose that the debate be
now
adjourned.
Mr Bundhoo rose and
seconded.
Question put and
agreed to.
Debate adjourned
accordingly.
ADJOURNMENT
The Prime
Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, I
beg to move that the House do now adjourn to
Tuesday 23 March
2010, at 11.30 a.m.
The Deputy Prime
Minister rose and seconded.
Question put and
agreed to.
Mr
Speaker: The House stands
adjourned.
At 6.53 p.m. the
Assembly was, on its rising, adjourned to Tuesday 23 March
2010, at
11.30
a.m.
SOCIO-CULTURAL
ORGANISATIONS
– EVENING CLASSES –
ORIENTAL LANGUAGES (07/06/16)
(No. B/536) Mr S. Mohamed (First
Member for Port Louis Maritime and Port Louis East) asked the Minister of
Education and Human Resources, Tertiary Education and Scientific
Research whether, in regard to the fees paid to the persons/teachers teaching
oriental and ancestral languages in evening classes run by registered
socio-cultural organisations, she will state the names of the said
persons/teachers, indicating in each case, the amount of money paid thereto
since January 2015 to date.
Mrs
Dookun-Luchoomun: Madam Speaker,
in my reply to PQ B/417, I had informed the House that the persons teaching
oriental language in evening classes are paid allowances depending on their
qualifications. This range from Rs1,000 to Rs2,000 monthly provided they have
covered 12 hours of teaching.
The information
pertaining to names of the persons and teachers teaching the different languages
and the names of the schools is being tabled in the National Assembly.
Madam Speaker, I
am informed that, from January 2015 to April 2016, an amount of around Rs31 m.
has been spent on the allowances paid to for the teaching.
Madam
Speaker: Next question,
hon. Shakeel Mohamed!
